Tractor logging Accident

[JDeere]

 A reminder to all of us how dangerous tractor logging can be.

NH farmer dies beneath overturned tractor


MONROE, N.H. (AP) -- New Hampshire State Police say a 62-year-old farmer was killed when he was accidentally pinned under a tractor on his property in Monroe.

According to police, Howard Ward and another person had been trying to cut down a large pine tree Monday afternoon. Ward was using the tractor to push on the tree and guide it down.

Police say that as the tree started to fall, the front of the tractor became entwined with the tree. The tractor rolled over and Ward was pinned beneath it. Rescuers pronounced him dead at the scene

[Sawyerfortyish]

Tractors are for farming and skidders are for logging. I learned this the hard way and lived to tell about it. It's very sad to hear that someone else didn't make it before he learned. For me I was luckey the tree that fell accross the tractor seat I was sitting in knocked me sideways but I held on so I didn't end up under the rear wheel. Shortly after that I bought a timberjack.

[bill m]

Lets not blame the tractor because of operator error.

A reminder to all of us how dangerous tractor logging can be.

All logging is dangerous not just with tractors.

Tractors are for farming and skidders are for logging.

Logging is farming our crop just happens to be a little bigger than corn.

[thecfarm]

billm,I thought the same thing. I don't like to say anything when it comes to a real bad accident or a death.But I would not be doing something like that.It's too bad things like this have to happen.Probaly he's done it before and had gotten away with it.We all do things we should not do.At times we get lucky and say that was a close one and than there's the time we don't get to say anything.

[240b]

My uncle lives acouple miles away and I remember seeing a 64 clark in the shed  by the road for years.

[RSteiner]

I use my 2,000 lb. 30 hp. Kubota for gathering firewood and the Farmi winch once in a while for pulling a tree so it will fall in the right direction.  Trying to push a tree over with that small of a tractor is asking for trouble, I can't get the bucket up high enough to make me feel comfortable. 

My neighbor has a 16 ton Cat skidder that  I would trust to pull over a large tree if necessary.  I have heard stories where a dozer or skidder has pushed on a tree and pushed the bottom of the tree off the stump causing the tree to fall over backwards onto the machine.

So, you got to be careful with whatever you are using.

Randy

[treefarmer87]

that is sad that happened. i never had any turnovers when i used the 5310, i had it on 2 wheels, but nothing dangerous. i agree with  Sawyerfortyish, my close friend who is a older experinced logger said the same thing, tractors are for farming, skidders are for logging. i pushed a nice poplar over today with the skidder arch, just go slow and be cafeful and you will be fine. i am never in a hurry when im in the woods. i dont cut quite all the way thru the tree either if i have to push it, so it works like a hinge, i prefer to pick up the sledge hammer and a couple of wedges, and i can make the tree go anywhere i want.

like RSteiner  said though be careful no matter what you are using

[vahighlander]

All logging is dangerous.  Im using my Kioti with a Wallenstein winch to skid logs, one at a time and with patience, and its as safe as a persons common sense will allow.  Idiots die on skidders too.... I'm sorry this guy died- but what he was doing is plain stupid.....

[Sawyerfortyish]

When my accident happened I was skidding a tree out with a 70hp ford tractor and a farmi winch and the log slid against a small dead tree along the skid trail and it fell across the seat I was sitting in.Those small 6-8" trees you never bother with because theres just not much wood to play with is what got me. It was a good leson learned.

[woodmills1]

kioti?  tell me more

[Black_Bear]

I'm sorry this guy died- but what he was doing is plain stupid.....

Mr. Ward lived on the Ward farm, which is located on Ward Road. I didn't know him or his family, but I would guess that he was a multi-generational, old-time farmer. A good old boy who wouldn't think about asking somebody else to perform a job that he thought he could do himself, which is just about any job known to man. It's in his blood.

Hindsight is 20-20, and maybe his methods weren't safe, but you have to understand the circumstances. It's a way of life.

[celliott]

I'm sorry this guy died- but what he was doing is plain stupid.....

Mr. Ward lived on the Ward farm, which is located on Ward Road. I didn't know him or his family, but I would guess that he was a multi-generational, old-time farmer. A good old boy who wouldn't think about asking somebody else to perform a job that he thought he could do himself, which is just about any job known to man. It's in his blood.

Hindsight is 20-20, and maybe his methods weren't safe, but you have to understand the circumstances. It's a way of life.

I did not know him personally, but I do know that the Wards are one of the biggest farm families in Monroe, and the area.  So you would be correct about him being an old time multi gen. farmer.  I had a tech class in high school with one of the wards, most likely one of his grandsons, and just from knowing him, I could definitly see how the family could be stubbornly set in their ways, just gonna do it their way.  It is a tragedy and just goes to show that no matter how much experience, or what equipment you are using, things can go wrong.  Be safe.

[Cedarman]

I put heavy steel fenders on the tractor and also a nice heavy duty roll bar and roof over the tractor seat.  Many times a small limb and sometimes a small dead tree will hit the top.  Ihave wire mesh along the back  to keep something from whipping in behind.  Almost all of what we do is cedar which tends to be bottom heavy rather than top heavy like hardwood.

That said it takes full attention at all times to be prepared.  The Farmi winch I use is much better to pull down than to use the front of the tractor or back for that matter to get a tree down.

I have heard of way to many logging deaths in the last few years.

[fishpharmer]

JDeere, what a tragic event.  In spite of the tragedy, thank you for sharing it with us.  I know I can never be reminded enough how quickly something like that can occur, to any of us.   Patience, planning and common sense can be a lifesaver.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Tractors are for farming and skidders are for logging.

A properly equipped tractor (Rops, seat belt, etc) is just as safe as a skidder for pulling logs.

[donny hochstetler]

I gaurantee if you would take all the skidders of the face of the earth and continue logging or trying to log  with tractors there would be a s hortage of tractor operators cause most of 'em would get killed I'm not saying you can't skid with tractors an it can probably be done in a safe way if you are very careful  I believe there are jobs where a tractor might be just fine but I think we should not be comparing tractors to skidders

[Ron Scott]

I can agree with that. ;) When using a farm tractor for logging, it needs to be outfitted and modified so that it can be safely used for logging. OSHA standards should be met in regards to its roll bars, overhead canopy, body armor, etc.

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-090/420-090.html

[SwampDonkey]

Dad farmed for 40 odd years and never used a tractor to seriously log, only cut some firewood off the fields. For logging he used a skidder and on the 400 acres of woods there was some ground he never even got to. Our woods was a loggers dream, flat and for the most part pretty firm ground except for some low land cedar stands or a spring here and there.

[captain_crunch]

Tracic Accident no doubt. I don't think you could armor any tractor to withstand what a Skidder is already designed to withstand. And belive me they ain't bullit proof either. use to have a pic of 440 Deere in 3 pieces from down hill runnaway. only neet part was opperator took the pics. Pushing tree off stump and haveing it come over backwards aint cool either(as in been there done that) only saveing grace is dozer was close enough to tree it kinda cantaluved over cat no geat impact like say 50 yards from stump. Sometimes I wonder why I loved logging like I did ??? ???

[John Woodworth]

I've yet to see a tractor of any kind in the woods here in the North West, our terrain, underbrush and all the other neat things about working in the woods you wouldn't even get off the landing let alone pull any serious wood. Some of the mishaps I've had through the years would have Killed me had I been on a tractor, you people using them are using what you have and it's working just take care, respect your machine and everything else as each situation is diffrent and things happen so fast.

Here in the late 40' up through the 1960 there were a number of Gypo pulp loggers cutting short length pulp wood and they were using Fergusion 40 tractors with front end loader and a 55 gal. barrel full of cement for counter weight to load pulp, most of them made to old age.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Tracic Accident no doubt. I don't think you could armor any tractor to withstand what a Skidder is already designed to withstand.??

In Europe they use many many forestry tractors for logging. A tractor with a properly designed ROPS with a buckled in operator can be as safe as possible.

[Shetland Sheepdog]

A tragic accident no doubt! :(
Working safely with what you have, and knowing your equipment's limitations is what it's all about! :
A skidder will, without doubt, do way more than a farm tractor, but a farm tractor will do way more than a horse, or ATV! It's a matter of what you have to work with, and working smart!
JMHO, Dave

[mad murdock]

Started in the woods with farmall super A for pulpwood, worked with a horse, another Farmall (H), Dozers, and skidders.  For serious day in, day out logging, a skidder can not be beat, though a good team of horses can do a good job with not too long of drags.  A tractor properly fitted with rops, though not as safe as a skidder, can be used effectively as long as you accept the limitations of the equipment.  I guess that can be said of any machine, they all have limits, and when exceeded, can be dangerous.  My dad told me of a logger years ago in N. Wisc, who while on his skidder, was skewered in the gut by a sapling maybe 1-2 in. dia. that snuck through the cab of his C-4 Tree Farmerl  It pinned him to the operators seat, he had to back up the machine, so the stick would come out, and he plugged the hole with his shirt, drove himself to the hospital and survived the whole ordeal.  ANYTHING can happen in the woods, and if a guy is not wary, will end up on the receiving end of a bad deal every time!

[Harvey]

kioti?  tell me more

www.kioti.com 

[SwampDonkey]

In Europe they use many many forestry tractors for logging. A tractor with a properly designed ROPS with a buckled in operator can be as safe as possible.

I'm guessing it's mostly on the easy ground though. That harvest block in the picture is flat as field. I've seen similar setups on woodlots and they aren't putting up much wood. Mostly older gentlemen in retirement on their own ground, so no hurry to do anything. One couple of fellas haul trailer and all direct into a local commercial mill as it's loaded, no yards. ;)

[chevytaHOE5674]

I'm guessing it's mostly on the easy ground though. That harvest block in the picture is flat as field. I've seen similar setups on woodlots and they aren't putting up much wood.

I've read about and seen guys in Europe logging some steep and rugged terrain with a tractor. They use a winch to get the trees to a haul rode and then either skid or forward them to a landing. I know of one guy locally who works with a properly setup tractor and he does very respectable for himself on just about any terrain.

Its not about how much wood you haul IMO, its about making the most $$$ per unit of tree. So if a tractor is relatively inexpensive and can net you a decent volume then your making money.

[SwampDonkey]

I suppose if you want to high grade. Talking about stand quality on most woodlots in this area, there aren't many pumpkins left behind if you want to cherry pick for $$.  Winching any length of distance on a tractor ain't nothing compared to a skidder. I'll let ya try a block I got in mind. I've seen skidders run up some steep ground and no tractor will go in them places. I'm very skeptical of their ability to do so. ;) :D With a highway or stream at the bottom, no way out but up over. ;)

[Jamie_C]

There used to be quite a few fellas using forestry type tractors around here in the 90's ... most of them quickly realised that in most of our province they were woefully under gunned for anything that remotely resembled production. The vast majority of the units sold in this province were barely capable of producing 1 - 1.5 cds per hour when equipped with harvesting heads. Trying to forward wood with them provided similar challenges ... soft ground, trailer constantly flipping over, etc, etc, etc

Many people either went bankrupt or very quickly upgraded to purpose built harvesters & forwarders.

Tractors are only good on the very best ground and in optimal harvesting wood ... they may be okay for the occasional weekend warrior but are totally inadequate for true production forestry .... it all comes down to buying the right purpose built tool for the job.

[SwampDonkey]

I looked at one myself actually. But no matter how you spun the numbers, the wood price wasn't there, price of equipment was too prohibitive, quality wood was limited and you were competing with high production machines that gave the landowner his money in the short term which most desired. Also,there was no way to afford an up front payment for the stumpage on a small operation that took a lot longer to get your return and a lot harder to get it in bad weather. A tractor is no good when everything slicks up and you don't have the articulation to maneuver. At the time everyone that had them were going to the woods with Kubotas and Fords that were way under sized for power and clearance. Most only had roll bars and skid pans, pretty much open to the sky otherwise.

[bill m]

One of the things that bothers my about this thread and the other one about a tractor logging fatality is the title. Neither one of these accidents was caused by the tractor and there is no proof that using a skidder would have prevented either one.
SwampDonkey, how can you say the cost of the equipment is too prohibitive?


My setup cost less than $60 thousand brand new and costs about $30 a week for fuel. At that price I could buy 3 tractors and trailers for less than the cost of one new forwarder and still save money on fuel. As for high grading jobs I do not do that. I do not bid on jobs or buy stumpage.The forester I work thru will show me a job and ask what I want per M to cut it, he brokers the logs. If he does not think the land owner can make a fair return for his logs with this arrangement  he will put it out to bid for other loggers. I know there are some places I will not go with my tractor and I will not do those jobs. As for making a living , well I work 7 days a week from Christmas till sugaring season than take most of the summers off just do a small job here and there if I get to bored.

[SwampDonkey]

Based on local stand conditions and equipment pricing. The run of wood you get into around here is at least 70 % pulpwood. It would be a lot more than $60,000 for equipment here. You can add about 40-60 % onto the price of any equipment your buying in Mass and double the fuel $. Plus I've run farm tractors and you might run on a tank for 2 days, of course there is a lot of idle time in the woods, so maybe 3 days.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Bill m from the looks of equipment you have you would do good on some locations. But where I am you would be handicapped with your setup as the terrain would stop you in your tracks. I used to log with a tractor until the day a dead tree landed on me accross the tractor seat. It came from behind and I never seen it comming. It was caused buy the log catching a dead tree along the skid trail. Today I only use skidders. But I remember the days steering the tractor with the brakes because the front wheels never hit the ground on the way out to the landing. If you get that tractor with that trailor you have loaded on a hill it will push you and you will not be able to controll it at all. I know this because I bale hay with a 100hp 4 wheel drive tractor and the kicker wagon and baler will push the tractor around on the hills. I can tell you this I can pull 3 times more with my skidder safely and much quicker than with a tractor of the same horse power. As for the cost of equipment my first skidder(I have2)cost 10 grand 20 yrs ago and is still working hard and safe. If I had continued with that tractor I would have hurt myself.

[bill m]

Bill m from the looks of equipment you have you would do good on some locations. But where I am you would be handicapped with your setup as the terrain would stop you in your tracks. I used to log with a tractor until the day a dead tree landed on me accross the tractor seat. It came from behind and I never seen it comming. It was caused buy the log catching a dead tree along the skid trail. Today I only use skidders. But I remember the days steering the tractor with the brakes because the front wheels never hit the ground on the way out to the landing. If you get that tractor with that trailor you have loaded on a hill it will push you and you will not be able to controll it at all. I know this because I bale hay with a 100hp 4 wheel drive tractor and the kicker wagon and baler will push the tractor around on the hills. I can tell you this I can pull 3 times more with my skidder safely and much quicker than with a tractor of the same horse power. As for the cost of equipment my first skidder(I have2)cost 10 grand 20 yrs ago and is still working hard and safe. If I had continued with that tractor I would have hurt myself.

I agree, there are some places a tractor should not go. As for having the front wheels off of the ground well thats just not safe. My trailer also has four wheel drive so I do not get pushed down the hills. That skidder you bought for 10 grand was it brand new with a two year warranty? Your tractor you were using must not have had a FOPS on it.

I've run farm tractors and you might run on a tank for 2 days, of course there is a lot of idle time in the woods, so maybe 3 days.

I fill my fuel tank about every 5 or 6 days - 10.5 gallons. at $3.00 per gal.

[SwampDonkey]

I'm glad your getting good mileage, but talk to any logger in these parts and the fuel bill is out-landish. Farmers will tell ya the same.

[bill m]

I'm glad your getting good mileage, but talk to any logger in these parts and the fuel bill is out-landish. Farmers will tell ya the same.

That's why I don't run a skidder any more. 3 years ago diesel was over $5 per gal. It has come down to just over $3 now but it wont stay there forever.

[Jamie_C]

bill m,

Glad your set-up works for you but up here we are in a totally different world when it comes to wood quality and type of terrain. We are in what is considered a pretty decent block right now and it is running 25 cds / acre total stand volume. Most harvest blocks have an average dbh in the 6"-12" range, run about 18-20 cd per acre and you are either climbing over rocks or dealing with soft ground or steep hills.

Most of us up here in the Eastern part of the Great White North would give our first born and our left leg to have wood to cut like you guys seem to have.

For your fuel consumption ... what does it work out to for gallons/hour of machine time as that is the true measure of fuel economy. The Timberjack 610 we run consumes about 3 gallons per hour depending on terrain and the Tigercat 845 harvester is burning about 6 gallons per hour.

[treefarmer87]

that JD @ the top of the page is awsome looking

[stonebroke]

bill m,

Glad your set-up works for you but up here we are in a totally different world when it comes to wood quality and type of terrain. We are in what is considered a pretty decent block right now and it is running 25 cds / acre total stand volume. Most harvest blocks have an average dbh in the 6"-12" range, run about 18-20 cd per acre and you are either climbing over rocks or dealing with soft ground or steep hills.

Most of us up here in the Eastern part of the Great White North would give our first born and our left leg to have wood to cut like you guys seem to have.

Do any of you guys just thin and try to grow some bigger trees or is it just a lost cause.

Stonebroke

[Jamie_C]

bill m,

Glad your set-up works for you but up here we are in a totally different world when it comes to wood quality and type of terrain. We are in what is considered a pretty decent block right now and it is running 25 cds / acre total stand volume. Most harvest blocks have an average dbh in the 6"-12" range, run about 18-20 cd per acre and you are either climbing over rocks or dealing with soft ground or steep hills.

Most of us up here in the Eastern part of the Great White North would give our first born and our left leg to have wood to cut like you guys seem to have.

Do any of you guys just thin and try to grow some bigger trees or is it just a lost cause.

Stonebroke

Here in Nova Scotia there is very little commercial thinning done any more. There used to be some done when there was a decent silviculture program but most of that went by the wayside a few years ago. We do some hardwood commercial thinnings but the rates that are being paid for doing them are near bankruptcy rates. The majority of the land we work on wouldn't survive a commercial thinning .... thin soils, poorly drained soils, short lived species (balsam fir, poplar, red maple, white spruce) plus the majority of the industrial landowners here have no interest in it.

[bill m]

bill m,
Most of us up here in the Eastern part of the Great White North would give our first born and our left leg to have wood to cut like you guys seem to have.

For your fuel consumption ... what does it work out to for gallons/hour of machine time as that is the true measure of fuel economy. The Timberjack 610 we run consumes about 3 gallons per hour depending on terrain and the Tigercat 845 harvester is burning about 6 gallons per hour.

Yes, we do have good wood to cut around here. It would be to hard to make a living just cutting pulp. We are just not close enough to a pulp yard to make a good profit, the trucking kills us.
As for fuel economy the true measure is gallons consumed per volume of wood produced not machine time. As everyone who works in the woods knows some days everything goes perfect and some days nothing goes right ( cable or chokers break, trees get hung up,  equipment gets stuck, pre bunching trees to make a full hitch etc. etc.). On the job I have been working the past 2 winters my fuel consumption works out to about 10.5 gallons per 20m feet of logs plus 8 cord of firewood and 8 cord of pulp.

[Jamie_C]

bill m,
Most of us up here in the Eastern part of the Great White North would give our first born and our left leg to have wood to cut like you guys seem to have.

For your fuel consumption ... what does it work out to for gallons/hour of machine time as that is the true measure of fuel economy. The Timberjack 610 we run consumes about 3 gallons per hour depending on terrain and the Tigercat 845 harvester is burning about 6 gallons per hour.

Yes, we do have good wood to cut around here. It would be to hard to make a living just cutting pulp. We are just not close enough to a pulp yard to make a good profit, the trucking kills us.
As for fuel economy the true measure is gallons consumed per volume of wood produced not machine time. As everyone who works in the woods knows some days everything goes perfect and some days nothing goes right ( cable or chokers break, trees get hung up,  equipment gets stuck, pre bunching trees to make a full hitch etc. etc.). On the job I have been working the past 2 winters my fuel consumption works out to about 10.5 gallons per 20m feet of logs plus 8 cord of firewood and 8 cord of pulp.

Fuel consumed per volume of wood produced is highly variable depending on the wood quality ... fuel consumed per hour of machine time in my 15+ years of running gear varies very little.

In our neck of the woods most costs are calculated on a per machine hour basis, it's probably done that way here because of our extreme variations of wood quality / volume on harvest blocks. Most large companies up here will tell you right to the penny what the machines cost per hour to run, Irving could probably tell you right down to $0.000000001 per hour what their contractors expenses are.

[bill m]

/quote]

Fuel consumed per volume of wood produced is highly variable depending on the wood quality ... fuel consumed per hour of machine time in my 15+ years of running gear varies very little.

In our neck of the woods most costs are calculated on a per machine hour basis, it's probably done that way here because of our extreme variations of wood quality / volume on harvest blocks. Most large companies up here will tell you right to the penny what the machines cost per hour to run, Irving could probably tell you right down to $0.000000001 per hour what their contractors expenses are.

Your right about fuel consumption per machine hours not varying but you are assuming those machines are producing 100% for every hour of run time. On paper it sounds good but in real life everyone knows that doesn't happen.

[Jamie_C]

Most newer equipment will break down your running time, productive time, and will have many categories for "down time" .... repairs/maintenance, lunch break, interruption, etc, etc that makes it really easy to asses your costs per total machine hour vs productive hour vs man hours or any other thing you can think of.

It's amazing what the machines will track for you now.

[SwampDonkey]

In central New Brunswick we have the ground to do the work on, but the economics isn't there. The land owner would get nothing and the logger (tractor logging) would slowly go broke because our woods have been high graded so bad and we are in fringe hardwood , the money has always been in softwood. The amount of sawlogs and veneer running through the marketing boards wouldn't be 5% of sales. Most have to clearcut to make the payments and as I said the tractor guys can't make of go of it at all. Dad had a large farm with lots of tractors and on good flat land and plenty of dry ground, he got a skidder after selling the horse about 40 years. And he wasn't logging for a living, but figured if he was going to make a little bit of money he needed a skidder. And dad was one of a few landowners that never high graded and clearcut. He saved all the hardwood log trees for down the road. Nearing retirement he then sold 400 acres of stumpage to cash in, he knew the next guy would just cut it anyway so might as well be in his pockets for all the efforts he put into his woods. The mentality you got to remember is clearcutting in this neck of the globe, the government has pushed that for years. If you have popple and fir stands, and it is matured, you better cut it before the worms move in. It will literally crash in short order once it begins. I've seen perfect looking fir, 12-18" stuff, go down hill in 3 years , full of wood pecker holes in the buts. If there is white birch in there it will all die from scald. I had a set of aerial photos where I worked that was a snapshot of a stand of fir-white birch about 15 years apart. The older photo showed the stand as dark strip up over a hillside. The new photo showed it as a light green strip of shrubs and young growth. It had all fell down and the birch died to. A woodlot owner had bought the land from government because he owned the frontage and was cleaning up some stray yellow birch that had not died. He planted about 16 acres back to red spruce, a long lived species that grows well in those hillsides and those things were planted in shaley soil, grew like they were sitting in fertilizer. Planted a small amount of white spruce at the same time and they went all yellow. Well what had happened, to my recollection, was I had put Miracle Grow on the red spruce under the sprinkler system and did they ever benefit out in the woods in that shale. Red spruce was a good call for up there because out side of the planting site the understory had red spruce growing up through hobble bush and striped maple.