Uh-oh Log too heavy?

[Qweaver]

I've got a sawing job starting this weekend that includes 1300 BdFt of 1"x 18' random width poplar boards.  I don't have enough felled 18' logs to make that much and the only suitable  tree that I have standing is 32" dia. BH.  That's over 4000 lbs of log.  I'm not sure the JD 110 will lift that much on the forks.  I may be able to lift it with chains attached further back behind the forks.  I sure hate to get that log on the ground and then not be able to lift it.  I may be able to buck 8' off of the base and still get a smaller diameter 18 footer. 
I'm thinking that I may be able to use both tractors to lift it but that might be a trick to move also.
?

[paul case]

quinton,
i have got 2 of those big buggers on the gound myself.34'' and 38'' lil end 48'' or so on the big end. 10' red oak. cant lift them with my tractor and wont fit on the saw. i tried  to peddle them off to every outfit around  and no one will take them unless i split them. they only pay for 1/2  the scale of the big log when split since thy measure across the shortest face. i guess i will split them and use them myself. they were dying trees or i would have never cut them.each made some top logs that i could saw.
i often worry about the weight on the mill too. mine is pretty sturdy and i dont want to bend it.
no answers here.  pc

[DanG]

You may not need to lift it, Q.  If you can skid that bad boy to the mill, you can parbuckle it onto the bed.

[Qweaver]

I've lifted 30" dia logs in the 12' range on the forks with the 110. So maybe chains behind the forks will work.  I hate to skid because of the dirt.  I have never tried parbuckling but the LT28 is setup to do it.  The tree is only 100' from the sawshed.  I could just move the saw up beside the log and use both tractors or parbuckle. 
Time becomes a factor.  I can not justify charging the customer setup time simply because I don't have the equipment to move the log...and yet, I don't want to work for $10 per hour.
I'm already giving this job a lot of free time.  The customer's builder gave me his requirement in SqFt for each board length which I now have to convert into running feet for each length needed.  Then because they want the boards in random widths, I'll have to keep a running tally as I saw.  I've set this up on a spread sheet to do that.  But it took a half hour of time to convert the SqFt to running feet and and set up the tally sheet.
I'll have to fell, buck, and move the limbs to the burn pile and then get the log on the saw before I start making money.  I'm charging $45 an hour for sawing time and I give $15 of that to my helper.  I'm also charging a small amount for using my logs.  I haven't determined that cost yet.  What's a fair price?
I may have to find another log for the 18 footers.  I also need 10' and 8' boards so if I can't easily lift it, I'll cut it down in length.

[tyb525]

Qweaver, do you have a pressure washer or garden hose available to wash dirt off if you skid? How about a draw knife of some sort of debarker?

That is a fairly low price per hour, especially when having to deal with your own logs. When I have to provide the logs, I charge as if I had to buy the logs.

This website has links to various price reports for most states: http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/econ/data/prices/

That is what I use to price logs.

[Qweaver]

Thanks for that link TYB.  I'll use it also.   I just have to make sure that I don't price myself out of the market.  Now water there yet.  I usually carry the logs 200' to wash them.  Not an option in this case.

[Hilltop366]

Be carefull if lifting with two tractors, if one gives out or there is a misunderstanding with the other driver most of the weight can be transfered to the other tractor and overload it. This happened to a boom truck driver I know, they were using two trucks to lift a tank off a boat, not sure why but one side let go and put too much weight on the other and flipped the truck on it's side. He's lucky, only missing 1/2 of one arm.

[Bibbyman]

I've handled overweight logs by lifting and moving one end at a time.  Don't get it too far off the ground.

[nas]

If you are going to move the mill to the tree, make sure you drop the tree first ;D

Nick

[Burlkraft]

If you are going to move the mill to the tree, make sure you drop the tree first ;D

Nick

Or you could just drop the tree on the mill..... :D :D

[ladylake]

I've handled overweight logs by lifting and moving one end at a time.  Don't get it too far off the ground.

Bet you don't find too many you can't lift with those terex machines.  Steve

[paul case]

on good logs that are mine i charge $.30/bdft. they would probably average that if i took them to the nearest mill. they pay doyle scale but i charge actual bdft. 1''x12''x12''. this takes a little of the pain out of handleing time. pc



btw. dont try to fall the tree onto your mill.

[customsawyer]

Paul if you are having trouble with them big logs I will come and mill them for you. You just have to pay the per mile rate to come that far. ;D
Your should be out making hay anyway.

[paul case]

finished early today . started at 10 am baled everything that we cut yesterday and finished at 330. 100 bales.
i dont think i could recover enough lumber to pay for your trip, but if your in the area stop by and you may get put to work.pc

[Bibbyman]

I've handled overweight logs by lifting and moving one end at a time.  Don't get it too far off the ground.

Bet you don't find too many you can't lift with those terex machines.  Steve

This was our "test" log for the machines we tried out.  Its 12' long about 40" dia red oak.  A bigger JD loader would not lift it.

But I got it to where it was with the AGCO 4660 by lifting one side at a time.

[customsawyer]

If I get close I will most likely be on the bike and when I'm on the bike I don't like to work. ;D

[paul case]

well just stop in anyhow. if you catch me here you can view'' my impressive lack of equipment''. pc

[ladylake]

I've handled overweight logs by lifting and moving one end at a time.  Don't get it too far off the ground.

Bet you don't find too many you can't lift with those terex machines.  Steve

This was our "test" log for the machines we tried out.  Its 12' long about 40" dia red oak.  A bigger JD loader would not lift it.

But I got it to where it was with the AGCO 4660 by lifting one side at a time.

Wow, those machine ares impressive.   Steve

[Handy Andy]

  I find I can move big logs with my skidsteer, even if I can't lift them up.  Just get the forks under them and barely get it off the ground and take it up to the mill. Might have to winch it up on there.

[bandmiller2]

Quint,call the guy your cutting for mayby he dosen't need single boards that long,now if it was dimention stuff ok,boards can be pieced togather.To figure board feet stack like legnth boards togather in 4' wide piles easy to figure BF.Shame to cut that big tree just because someone wants long boards better saved  for something that matters like beams and rafters. Frank C.

[kelLOGg]

Or you could just drop the tree on the mill..... :D :D
[/quote]

I was sawing for a guy years ago who told me he saw someone fell trees directly onto his trailer, back it up another 16 feet and repeat .  Dont't know if it really true or if it comes under the "never let the truth get in the way of a good story" department, but he added the sawyer was constantly repairing the trailer.

Bob

[ljmathias]

Yeah, and there was the video of the guy who sawed a huge palm tree onto the bed of his pickup somewhere on the forum- was using the pickup to "help" bring the tree down in the right direction.  Worked like a charm- tree missed the house altogether.  Course, the truck wasn't too drivable then... :D :D

Lj

[paul case]

when i first  started sawing  i hd a fella bring a 35'' x 15' catalpa. it had blown over in his yard. he blocked up the log and cut all the top up and removed it then backed a trailer under it as far as he could and cut it off the stump and pulled it on the rest of the way with a comealong. pulled the trailer out to my place with a 15hp john deere from commerce ok. 17 miles.
you can tell when someone is serious about getting a log sawed up. pc

[sigidi]

Surely there is a swingblade close to you, even if you got a guy in to break the log down into large cants then resawed the boards you want from the cants? A swingmill should setup real easy wherever you drop the tree, then ya only moving boards and would be well easy on the tractor?

[Qweaver]

It would be pretty hard to justify the cost of setting up a swinger to cut one log that will become B&B.  I'll just cut a smaller tree and make this big tree into shorter logs that I can lift.  Also the customer wants 10" and 12" boards.    My plan is to fell the tree, try to move it with two tractors and if that does not work I'll make 10' and 8' boards from it.  I don't know of a swinger close to me. 

[Bandmill Bandit]

Hi Qweaver

Big logs are the most fun to cut but they can be a pain to get into cutting position.

I have and LT40 HD28G and have opened more then a few logs with the help of my chain saw. Who ever said you cant do a 42 inch log on an LT40? It was a 12 footer of pine and I dont think it had a 1/2 inch of taper.

As far as using own timber, I charge same price as it costs me to land timber in my yard bucked to length and ready to saw. Right now that would be running close to $50 ish a metric ton.

Also you need to consider availability of the product you are producing for your client. If he can get get any where then you have a competion market that will set the price for you. If you are the only guy he can get it from then you kinda have the ACE hand and can charge what you need to to make sure you make a fair profit and he gets a good quality product. $45 and hour is pretty low in my market. Most of the sawyers I know localy charge from 50 to 60 on the low side and up to a 100 an hour.

I start at 65 and go up from there depending on what I am supplying. 65 is me and the mill after a $300 set up and move charge paid in cash when I inspect the site before I move the mill. Blades are billed as used. The clock starts ticking when the band hits the first log. If the timber is good, I will go to a $/bf charge only if i can cut more $/hour by bf than at the 65 and hour rate.
add $15 for a helper
add 40 for a bobcat or 250 a day
thats for logs ready to saw
for log prep i charge 100 and hour (includes bobcat)

thats just my system but i dont end up with too many jobs that cost me money and I always leave a happy client behind even if it cost him a bit more than the next guy, but then my competion localy is a D&L Double Cut, if you call that competion.

technicly he cuts more an hour but at the end of the week my lumber pile is a bit biggar, saw dust pile half the size of his and I have spent a lot less time and money on maitaince and repairs.

My client gets the better deal, nicer lumber and a whole lot less cleanup to deal with. I charge more but in the end the value is better to the client.

That D&L can cover 2 acres with saw dust knee deep in about 4 hours. that might be a bit of a stretch, but I bet it, close. lol

[woodhick]

Quint, I think you are really! shortchanging yourself on the logs.  I had a guy call me last week about a large poplar that fell in a storm.  Asked me if I wanted it that I could have it for free just come and pick it up.  I already have quite a bit of poplar laying in the log yard that I cant seem to sell.   I went and loaded up his log.   Got three 10' logs, two were 24" on the tip @ 250 bd ft each and the other was smaller and scaled at 200 bd ft.  Butt log was clean but a lot more discoloration in the heart than usual on a poplar, other two logs were pretty knotty.  Sold the three of them for $225.50.  Now I know some are going to say I should have sawed them and sold the lumber but I normally charge $.25 to saw.  If I had sawn them I would have gotten 700' maybe some more with overrun but that figures out to $315.    Just around here it almost better to sell the log than to cut the lumber.   A good grade log would bring a lot more than these three did.  I had a guy call a few weeks back wanting some 1" RW siding out of pine or poplar.  I gave him a price of $450 per thousand and he told me he could get it for $325 per thous. somewhere else about 30 miles away.  At  $325 minus my rate ($250)  that leaves $75 for my logs.  I'll sell them for .30 to .60 a foot and not have to saw them first.   Again this applies to another post about what people are charging.  Rates change a great amount just a few miles apart.  Anyway good luck, and let me know how the 110 handles them.  I would love to have on of them.

[captain_crunch]

Guess I always seem to have different problems my loader will easly lift a 27 ft X5ft (little end) Doug fir

I need a smaller loader for what I do But the HD-11is here and don't owe me anything : :

[MartyParsons]

Wow, That HD 11 looks like it could pick up the log and the mill and more.
The Wood-Mizer mills are rated for 4400 lbs. I have sawed some big logs and burried the legs in the ground. The LT28 will saw 31.5 " from the bed rail. You have about 10 " above the blade.  Gosh be carefull!
M

[carykong]

In my case,if a log exceeds the limits of my FEL(35 hp New Holland) I skid the log parallel to the mill and then roll the log up a wooden ramp onto my cutting bed. You can see my logmoving on youtube. Search "TC-35 and woodmizer and carykong." Also, have considered but never taken the time to cut a trench about 25 inches deep that I could place my logmill in for particulary large logs. With the mill in the trench no lifting is necessary.