Ever get a log that...?

bunst · August 24, 2010, 04:23:04 PM

Put a nice looking spruce about 20" diameter with minimal knots on the mill. Expecting easy sawing to yield alot of 2-by's. First cut and the blade dives quite dramatically; the resulting slab came off looking like a banana. Sawed the opposite side and another banana but in the opposite direction. Obviously this log is under stress or tension. Every cut cut I make dives and I cant get anything good from this log, so I give up on it.

Is there any way to know ahead of time if a log is not worth cutting?...Frustrating!

Magicman · August 24, 2010, 04:44:53 PM

I've never sawed Spruce, but sometimes our SYP has telltale indicators. Horizontal "knuckle" rings around the butt is a sign of compression wood. Log sweep, and also a pith that is badly off center is an indicator that trouble is ahead.

Sawing from the little end may minimize the blade's tendency to dive, etc.

Chuck White · August 24, 2010, 05:51:56 PM

I always try to saw from the small end, and as MM said, it will lessen the duck & dive with the blade, somewhat!

That was a good size log to be giving you problems. Usually it is the smaller diameter logs that give you fits!

kderby · August 24, 2010, 06:49:26 PM

My experience on spruce was that a sharp blade is critical. The soft wood / hard knot combination was a wreck waiting to happen.

Even if this log cost you time effort and money, some logs are just not going to be worth anything.

Keep milling!!! The next log might be spectacular!!!!!

KD

red oaks lumber · August 24, 2010, 07:11:04 PM

spruce sucks!!!!!!!! even cutting with a circle mill. spruce is the asian carp of the tree world.

laffs · August 24, 2010, 08:11:05 PM

spruce is one of the worse things to saw id rather hit nails. preferably in a spruce log. so i wouldnt have to saw it anymore.
about the only way i can get it right is to creep along, and then its 50/50 . ash ia a close second nice looking wood but it moves all the time . bout like sawing an eel

r.man · August 24, 2010, 10:04:38 PM

I've heard local bandmill sawyers say that they would rather cut frozen spruce than thawed spruce so that the knots are not a problem.

Magicman · August 24, 2010, 10:08:29 PM

The old folks called it a "suck butt" log. I really didn't know what they talking about until I started sawing and watched the butt end raise up off of the log deck as boards are removed. Stress will do some strange things.

Okrafarmer · August 24, 2010, 10:12:08 PM

Quote from: Magicman on August 24, 2010, 10:08:29 PM
The old folks called it a "suck butt" log. I really didn't know what they talking about until I started sawing and watched the butt end raise up off of the log deck as boards are removed. Stress will do some strange things.

There are so many things that could be said here, but I think I'm going to refrain in the name of TMI!

McCormack · August 24, 2010, 10:29:40 PM

I cut a hemlock that did that yesterday. I snapped a blade in it.

redbeard · August 24, 2010, 10:35:45 PM

I milled up about 12 spruce logs last week and the nicest one was full of compression and stress couldn't see it on the ends

but it made me re-plumb and track my mill twice spent a good part of the day on that log, Some logs win the battle.

backwoods sawyer · August 25, 2010, 12:25:01 AM

When I was cutting quite a bit of spruce I found that the fibers of the wood were tearing and wrapping around the gullet. A few things that helped was to keep the mill aligned, up the tension on the saw, up the set, lower the hook angle, change saws often and minimize the width of the cut. I like extra water as well, get out the garden hose.

weisyboy · August 25, 2010, 05:30:41 AM

get ya self a swing blade mill

no problem with blade moving.

no problem cutting tensioned logs

no expencive sharpening machines.

backwoods sawyer · August 27, 2010, 01:03:08 AM

Quote from: weisyboy on August 25, 2010, 05:30:41 AM
get ya self a swing blade mill

no problem with blade moving.

no problem cutting tensioned logs

no expencive sharpening machines.

Sure why not, a second mill is not a bad thing.

Unless you get pitch on the saw, teeth miss ground or dull. Then the saw just lays over and plays dead.

Tension logs will still grab a round saw.

When a saw goes south on you, it is a good time to know a good "Saw Doc" and have a spare saw or two on hand.

weisyboy · August 27, 2010, 04:28:38 AM

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on August 27, 2010, 01:03:08 AM
Quote from: weisyboy on August 25, 2010, 05:30:41 AM
get ya self a swing blade mill

no problem with blade moving.

no problem cutting tensioned logs

no expencive sharpening machines.

Sure why not, a second mill is not a bad thing.

Unless you get pitch on the saw, teeth miss ground or dull. Then the saw just lays over and plays dead.

Tension logs will still grab a round saw.

When a saw goes south on you, it is a good time to know a good "Saw Doc" and have a spare saw or two on hand.

pitch? i have milled many times with just one tooth. any you still get dead straight boards.

tension wont grab the saw unless the operator is stupid. but i know more than one bloke who has trouble with this. but they wont learn no matter how i try to teach them.

a good saw doctor is aways a plus.

sigidi · August 27, 2010, 07:27:53 AM

... some logs are just gonna give you grief, these yield less timber, but it can be cut well with little movement - if the operator 'sees' the log properly, but that is just the same with a bandmill - theres a big difference between an "owner" and an "operator"

Okrafarmer · August 27, 2010, 11:03:36 PM

Quote from: weisyboy on August 27, 2010, 04:28:38 AMi have milled many times with just one tooth. any you still get dead straight boards.

:D :D :D
Weisy, I think he was talking about teeth on the saw!
:D :D :D

Just kidding with ya!

paul case · August 27, 2010, 11:10:42 PM

that may work on a swing mill but it wont work on a band mill guess how i know? pc

sigidi · August 28, 2010, 06:18:50 AM

Quote from: paul case on August 27, 2010, 11:10:42 PM
that may work on a swing mill but it wont work on a band mill guess how i know? pc

Paul it works if the log is gonna give ya straight stuff anyway, but if she's gonna give ya trouble, you'll get it with 5 teeth or 1 - on the sawblade ;D :D

bandmiller2 · August 28, 2010, 07:37:55 AM

I cut quite a bit of spruce for truck side boards.It is a test for mill and sawyer everything must be just right and don't be in a big hurry.Less hook angle helps and good even set and change the band sooner for a sharp tooth.If that still dosen't work forn-i-cate it and dump the log, it can keep you warm later.Frank C.

paul case · August 28, 2010, 09:14:57 AM

Quote from: bandmiller2 on August 28, 2010, 07:37:55 AM
I dump the log, it can keep you warm later.Frank C.

i am hijacking here,
my dad says you should wait till winter to cut your wood anyway. that way it gets you warm twice. pc

Okrafarmer · August 28, 2010, 09:26:52 PM

Makes me wonder about those poor souls in certain parts of Canada and Alaska where almost all they have to mill is spruce (birch, aspen, tamarack about round it up). I bet those boys are good at milling spruce!

malcolmtent · September 01, 2010, 10:58:26 PM

Interesting.... I had a lot of problems with tips flying off my circular mill blades on spruce. It was my first job and I thought it was my (lack of) brazing skills. I broke off tips at the same place every time, and yes, there were some knots right at that point. Perhaps not so much my problem.......

barbender · September 02, 2010, 09:43:36 PM

I've seen a knotty open grown white spruce make a fool out of a swing mill operator before- it is tough to saw no matter what type of mill you are running.

Okrafarmer · September 02, 2010, 09:46:56 PM

I still want to know about the people in Alaska who have very little else to saw but spruce. Are they good at it? And when you do get it sawn, it's some pretty good lumber, isn't it?