Loss of our Tamarack (Eastern Larch)

[SwampDonkey]

Generally tamarack is no taller than balsam fir, and tops out around 65-70 feet tall. They do get big on the but especially growing on old abandoned fields. I have measured some in the upper twenties. The limbs on these bigger trees were very long, at least 20 feet. I live in Western New Brunswick and my woods are on the border with Maine, my house is 3 miles south. Most of our tamarack is spiral grained (twisty). You can even see the spiral twist in the trees I planted in the wet places. Grows fast, I'd rather have tamarack than dogwood and willow bushes growing on the wet places. I think the record tamarack was in Maine and I forget the height. But it was recently cut because it was dying.

As of 1980, my dendro book indicates the record tree to be 95' with a circumference of 9'8" (37 inch diameter)

[thecfarm]

We had a small stand of it,maybe an acre, back in '93.We probably had some about that big. I have no idea the height.But the biggest we had was white pine. Some were over 4 feet and we had a few 5 feet across. Some were real nice looking pines and some were some ugly. My Father and me chased down all the big ones. Now those big pines are hard to get rid of. The debarkers only open so wide and those big trees won't fit. Seems like Hancock will take the big ones now. I don't have anymore left.

[Okrafarmer]

Yes, the white pines get much bigger than the tamarack. They do grow some big ones in Maine, I've seen some o those 5-footers. The tamarack at our place, I never measured it, but I'm sure it was at the very least 95 feet, but nowhere near the record diameter. The limbs spread quite widely, and some of them were over 8" thick at the base. I now deal with a number of trees that are 100 ft. tall and taller, though I rarely saw them in Maine, just that one hackmatack and the few pines that got that tall. I guess the fores height in Maine must be typically around 50-60 ft. wheras here in South Carolina it is probablly 80-90 feet typically for a mature forest. The truly mature stands here are sometimes over 100 ft tall, especially in the mountains. That's true especially of the oaks, tulip tree, and sweetgum, with some pine that tall in the mountains.

[SwampDonkey]

Spruce, especially red spruce, can grow  to 110 feet or more. But has to be a good site. I have measured red spruce on the Waspke flood plain that were 105 feet. The fir in one stand that came to mind had died and fell down and were no taller than 65 feet. The site was a little wet for fir and it never had much of a diameter. Hardwood on the ridges here are short. In protected areas with deep moist soil they can get to 80 feet, not much taller. Oh, you might find a 90 foot sugar maple or yellow birch, but very rare around here. Mostly because they were cut years ago.

[terry f]

       Sad to see the loss of your trees. How far into their normal life cycle were they? Around here tamarack (western larch) is our top firewood tree price wise and is the same as doug fir at the mill. Are you going to re establish the tamarack or go in a differant direction, and will they start in a shaded understory? We don't have hardwoods out here and if it wasn't for the tamarack our hills would never change color.

[Jeff]

I'd say the trees on My sister's Property were middle aged, around 40 or so. The big trees on my property I do not know. I have cedars up to 100 years old, and tamarack growing up amongst them. They actually have quite a different appearance due to growing in the dense cedar. Much taller then on the cabin property. If we have a dry spring or summer this year, I may be able to get some down and out, then I'll know the age.

[Jeff]

Well, Burlkraft and I are converging on the cabin tonight getting ready to start milling up some of this Tamarack over the next few days. 

[WDH]

Sounds like it will be an adventure, and some hard work to boot.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Best of luck. Not sure about the weather for the East end but supposed to be in the upper 80's out west for the next couple days.

[thecfarm]

hope you guys have a good time. I hope they saw out good for you.

[SwampDonkey]

Well now you have lots of logs to saw out for a visitors/guest chalet. At the very least and shed for the surplus lumber. ;D

[WDH]

Cut the lumber to build a shed to store the lumber.  There is something circular about this  .

[Norm]

Have fun and be careful, well with Steve helping be really careful! :D

[OneWithWood]

Let the fun begin!   8) 8)

[glassman_48]

Jeff, I have a cousin that lives in Barbeau Michigan, If I can get an e mail address from him I will send the pics.  He has lived there for 40 plus years now and knows some loggers/forestry guys in the area.

[Jeff]

Sorry for not posting. Will catch up when we can. Steve leaves in the morning. Im here with a busted truck. Need parts shifter cable and gas tank strap. Ill catch up on private messages as soon as i can. Thanks a ton for all the help Kevin!

[Kevin]

You're welcome JB.
THANK YOU for the fish dinner!
You guys must be whipped by now.

[Burlkraft]

Jeff has no internet or a truck.
We thought we had about 20 logs left and as he was sawing up some firewood to finish off a trailer load of slabs
he counted what was left.

60 logs!!!! 

Looks like it's gonna take anudder few days up there to finish.

Kevin....make sure you are on vacation then  :D :D :D :D

[Kevin]

WHAT?
60 logs?
That must be that pile of spindles on the south side of the staging area.
I thought that was his burn pile.

[wisconsitom]

Jeff, I was wondering if you would care to describe what has happened at this site in the ensuing years.  What species are being able to colonize the site?

Thanks,
tom

PS....It was mentioned by others as well, but one thing to keep in mind with tamarack, as opposed to the European, Japanese, and hybrid larch entities that are also out there, is that tamarack is a shorter-lived species when compared to any of these three.  It was mentioned...a lifespan of roughly 100 years.  That is short for a pine-family member and is also short for a larch.  By comparison, European, Japanese, and very likely hybrid larch types can be expected to live for multiple centuries when well-sited and left alone.  If I had to assign a number of years to what I think is likely the genetic potential lifespan of any one of these 3, I would guess right around 400 years.  It is my understanding that there are very large, old hybrid larch in various European countries, and that great size can be attained.

[SwampDonkey]

In my experience European larch grows faster than tamarack.  I used some this winter for firewood. Japanese larch is fast growing to. I had one in the yard but the sap sucker pecked it too death, which may have indicated a bug in it. The only bugs I saw was sawflies and I killed those. Those none natives grow far straighter than any wild larch here. I was involved in measuring several sites of replicated eastern larch in the Maritimes (NB, PEI, NS). We measured growth. Growing habit and form were assigned a number on some sort of scale. I only measured the growth with range pole and diameter tape, a couple researchers involved did the rest. I've seen a few European plantations on the research farm, but our focus was native eastern larch. Can't give you much of any details, it was 30 years ago. ;D

Not that it means much, but my dendrology professor seemed to like tamarack over any other native softwood. Forget the reasons, but I suspect it was due to the fall color and limbs covered in little cones. There was one planted near the back entrance of the Forestry/Geology building.

[SwampDonkey]

And don't forget balsam fir doesn't live much past 80 years and down she comes for the worms. ;D Grows twice as fast as spruce, if on well drained site with decent soil. They look like crap on wet ground, yellow and stunted.

[GeorgeFindlay]

Bill,

I can't help but chime in here. I do realize this discussion is now about ten pages long and spans nearly a decade. That said, I've not read it either.

I'd like to point out a couple of things relating to my exposure/observations of Tamarack. One, there is no shortage of tamarack in New Brunswick. Because of changing times/newer materials, tamarack demand is declining. There's lots of healthy tamarack. Two, tamarack grow best when it can receive lots of sunlight. In my unscientific observations, sunlight is equally important to soil moisture in promoting optimal tamarack growth.

As is, I use tamarack to make end grain cutting boards which I make/sell as a hobby. To my knowledge there is only one mill in NB that saws/dries any volume of tamarack (St. Leonard), and it's not an Irving holding. Having said that, if there was any money to be made in tamarack, 'The Empire' would be a dominate player.

[SwampDonkey]

Yep, I agree with what you have said George.

My planted tamarack  are to fill the voids and some will be firewood. ;D

Just to add here, not far from you, out behind Beechwood toward Moose Mountain, but near the lake was about 100 acres of tamarack the bugs ate, back around 2007-2010 time frame. ;) Down the road in Williamstown there is a stand along the road across from Taylors (Darren) that the bugs ate. In my area here there are not many tamarack although in an old cut on the farm here I noticed some growing in a spot. I thinned down there 12 years ago and there was none then. Seeded in since, on a wetter piece. My woodlot is on the wet side in places, but the only tamarack I have there is nursery stock, there was none wild there. Now down by Waterville Hospital there is a stand of young tamarack on Culberson's land, road fence around it. Up the high way from there on Crabbe, no tamarack on that thinning and some wet land in there. Both sides of highway, opposite side was Culberson's by pines.