what is a 4/4 board

[weisyboy]

i see you guys talking about a 4/4board what exactly is it?

iv also seen 3/4 and 5/4 mentioned

[bandmiller2]

Four quarter or one inch,6/4 would be 1 1/2 inch ect.Our mates down under that have done gone metric I don't know what you'd call it.Frank C.

[weisyboy]

it faster to saw inch than four quarter.

what is the idea behind sayign it like that.

i work in inches but most work in metric in aus.

1" is 25mm, 1 1/2" is 38mm.

when i cut a board you would call a 4x4 10' long, i call it a 4x4 3m long but i gota call it a 100mm x 100mm 3m long when i speak to others.

its just easyer for my to work in inches, its also easyer to signal to my tailor.

[bandmiller2]

Weasy,I don't really know why just one of the old trade ways of saying it.Guess its a way to recognise someone else in the sawmill business every trade has its own jargon so we can recognize each outher and weed out the pilgrims. Frank C.

[Magicman]

I once confirmed with a customer that he wanted me to saw his lumber 4/4.  He told me "no, he wanted it a full inch".  ;D

I have found that furniture builders, etc. are familiar with and use quarters.  Usually, if lumber is going to be planed to a certain thickness, then quarters are used to insure that enough stock is there to produce the desired final thickness.

Most of my customers want 1X4's, 1X6's, 1X12's, etc. for shelving, siding, sheathing, etc.,  so I commonly use inches.   So it does matter who you are talking to.  I just use the terminology that they are familiar with.

[weisyboy]

is it just used for thickness of for width aswell.

[Magicman]

Just thicknesses.

[weisyboy]

so it would be a 4" wide 4/4 board.

wht about square boards. like 4x4 or 2x2

[Magicman]

Thickness first.  4/4X4.  This would be the rough sawed measurement before drying and planing.  That way you could get a finished board that is ¾ by 3½.

I've really never seen any particular measurement used with square stock and cants other than inches.  Just be sure that you are sawing what the customer wants.

[Bibbyman]

4/4 is pronounced four-quarter.  Each "quarter" is 1/4".  Thus 4/4 would = 1".  In the old circle mill days 4/4 would be sawn 1-1/4" thick.  It's sawn over thickness to allow for inaccuracy in sawing, shrinkage and distortion in drying and is intended to be finished down to 1".  

In my world 4/4 oak grade lumber is sawn mill width by 1-1/8" thick.  (5/4 would be 1-3/8" thick, 6/4 would be 1-5/8" and so on.)  Only 1/8" is added to allow for shrinking and drying, etc.

Talking in "quarters" is the language used in the manufacturing of flooring, furniture, cabinets, etc. 

Construction lumber is specified in nominal dimensional numbers like 2x4, 1x10, etc. and may have started life from the mill in those sizes but lost quite a bit before it gets to the customer – 2x4 turning out to be 1.5"x 3.5", for example.

[weisyboy]

ok now i understand

do you gus have a standard that says what quality your timber has to be.

for green timber
if i want to sell a board 25mm (1") thick it has the be withing 3mm (1/8") of 25mm so it cant be more than 28mm and not less than 22mm.

for dry timber it cant be more than 3mm oversize and not under size at all.

[Chuck White]

Lumber has to be a specific grade if it's going to be used in construction.

Grade requirements can vary here from state to state!

[Ron Wenrich]

Hardwoods have their own different grades.  It is mainly dependent on the amount of clear wood that can be gotten from a piece of wood, and it has limits on the sizes of allowable cuts, and the number of cuts.

A clear or nearly clear piece of wood would grade out at FAS (Firsts & Seconds).  It would have a minimum cut of 4"x5' or 3"x7', and would need 90% in clear cuttings.  The number of allowable cuts are the Surface Measure (SM)/4.  This is the highest quality of wood, and commands the highest price. 

As the grades go down, you are allowed smaller cuts, more cuts, and less clear wood per piece.  The price also drops, sometimes dramatically.

Hardwoods are used for show.  The long, clear pieces are often used in moldings.  The boards with more defect may find their way into furniture and cabinet cuttings.  The boards with the most defect will find their way into flooring, especially strip flooring.

Besides 4/4, etc, there is a 5/8 cutting that is used for drawer sides.  You don't see much of this cut.  I believe they resaw 5/4 for drawer sides instead of all the extra handling that is involved with the 5/8 grade.

As for thickness, some plants try to squeeze down to the 1/16th of an inch, where 4/4 = 1 1/16.  Most wholesalers won't buy that thickness.  Most 4-6/4 is cut 1/8" over, but I've seen some that want 3/16" over on the 6/4.  Most plants want 1/4" when you get heavier than 8/4. 

Got to know your buyers and what they want.  Same holds true for construction or other uses, like pallets, ties, and blocking.

[paul case]

weisy,
if you want to se those rules that ron is talking about, look up nhla.com/pdf/rulebook.pdf            i will just say it this way. its complicated.

I once confirmed with a customer that he wanted me to saw his lumber 4/4.  He told me "no, he wanted it a full inch".  ;D

I have found that furniture builders, etc. are familiar with and use quarters.  Usually, if lumber is going to be planed to a certain thickness, then quarters are used to insure that enough stock is there to produce the desired final thickness.

Most of my customers want 1X4's, 1X6's, 1X12's, etc. for shelving, siding, sheathing, etc.,  so I commonly use inches.   So it does matter who you are talking to.  I just use the terminology that they are familiar with.

what do you mean  by''i commonly use inches''   are you usually sawing those 1x4's  7/8'' or 3/4'' or 1''?    i saaw quite a bit of those sizes and most often unless the customer is really picky i get by with 7/8 for inch boards.  not with grade lumber buyers. they have to have it 1 1/8''.   pc

[Chuck White]

Maybe I can answer your question Paul.

If I have a customer that's not sure about 1" or 4/4, I take the time to explain it to them.

Usually they'll say just use the 1" scale (what I call the yard-stick) and as you know, they'll come off the mill somewhere between 7/8 and 15/16 inch thick.  This due to not allowing for the kerf!

[weisyboy]

so a 4/4 board is full inch.

and a 1" board would be 1" less kerf. ???

[Ron Wenrich]

Its been my experience that 4/4 is used mainly in furniture grade lumber, and the inch scale is used in mainly construction.  The 4/4 will allow for shrinkage and planing, so its cut plump to have sufficient thickness to be planed down to a common thickness. 

Inch material is dependent on usage.  Our ties are supposed to be 7"x9", but they want them cut plump.  Same goes for pallet stock.

But, material from the inch scale is often cut scant, since its final usage has been allowed to be cut back over the years.  A 2"x4" in this country has a final size of 1½" x 3½".  So, to get the final size, many mills will cut a 2x4 at 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" to allow for drying and planing.  In hardwoods, we call that 6/4.   

[Magicman]

and a 1" board would be 1" less kerf. ??? 

Not necessarily weisyboy.  It depends upon the sawyer and what the customer wants.

I have Simple SetWorks, and when I saw 1" lumber, it's 1".  I have a cheat sheet that gives me my starting point at different heights so that the dog board is also 1".  When my customer asks for 1", he gets 1".

If the customer wants "quarter" lumber, then I'll simply adjust my starting height and give them what they want.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Another way to think about this which hasn't been said yet is that 4/4 or 4 quarter are mathematical expressions. 4/4 is written, not said, and it means 4 divided by 4, or 1.  It also means "four quarter" if said out loud.     Quarter means a quarter of an inch or 1/4 of an inch.   So "four quarter" means four 1/4's or 4 x 1/4 and that also is 1.   

After that is said you can get into that four quarter softwood is 1" and hardwood is 1-1/8" and 3/4 wood is calculated as 4/4 etc and on and on.

[sigidi]

Clear as bloody mud ain't it?  ;D

Personally I always check if the customer wants metric or imperial, mm or inches, I very often like Carl talk about length in metres, but do thickness and width in either inches or mm, whatever the customer is happy with.

If the timber is going to another mill, I like to catch up with them first and find out exactly what they are expecting, plump boards or whatever, same with a mobile customer - I figure it is just a case of numbers on the scale and with the Lucas I never have to account for the thickness of the blade it automatically sorts it out for me, so I just make sure what the customer wants, it's always hard to stick the sawdust back on to make a thicker board. :D ;)

[Piston]

On the Woodmizer quarter scale, if you use the 4/4 or 6/4 for example, do you get exactly 1" and 1 1/2" respectively?  Or does it add the 1/8" or so that you guys are talking about so you get 1 1/8" and 1 5/8" respectively? ???

[Bibbyman]

On the Woodmizer quarter scale, if you use the 4/4 or 6/4 for example, do you get exactly 1" and 1 1/2" respectively?  Or does it add the 1/8" or so that you guys are talking about so you get 1 1/8" and 1 5/8" respectively? ???

Not likely.  If I remember right,  it's intended to come up with a 1-1/8" or 1-1/4" "4/4" board.  WM makes a couple of scales depending on what 4/4 boards you want.

Clear as bloody mud ain't it?  ;D

Personally I always check if the customer wants metric or imperial, mm or inches, I very often like Carl talk about length in metres, but do thickness and width in either inches or mm, whatever the customer is happy with.

If the timber is going to another mill, I like to catch up with them first and find out exactly what they are expecting, plump boards or whatever, same with a mobile customer - I figure it is just a case of numbers on the scale and with the Lucas I never have to account for the thickness of the blade it automatically sorts it out for me, so I just make sure what the customer wants, it's always hard to stick the sawdust back on to make a thicker board. :D ;)

When I use the term "four-quarter" (4/4),  I'm specially talking about hardwood lumber made using the National Hardwood Lumber Association rules.  When I abide by their rules I can market my lumber to a number of commercial buyers – sometimes called "brokers" or directly to manufactures that use this product.  (In our case, right now, that's a company that makes flooring. )  These brokers then can sort, dry, etc. the lumber and in turn market their collected lumber to even bigger markets.  When a buyer knows the NHLA specifications, they don't have to do any talking about "how thick".   It's a common language in this market.  This lumber becomes a commodity like wheat, oil, etc. 

For a number of years we sawed walnut and cherry that went through a broker to export markets in Europe and Asia.  We still sawed it to NHLA rules.

Now if "Joe Smoo" comes in with a log,  I'll talk to him about how thick he wants his 1" lumber. 

[JPM]

the way i was told 4/4 is the size coming off the mill. 1in. is a dressed size.but i cut just for my self so i can call it what i want  ;D

[Okrafarmer]

So I'm guessing that it is one of those things where the meaning and purpose behind it has changed somewhat over time. I guess in the old days they cut a lot of lumber thinking in terms of quarters of an inch-- quite possibly the old time circle mills couldn't adjust any finer than that? So it was a matter of how many quarters of an inch did you want-- how many pulls on the lever to set the log over, or something like that? And the terminology continued on beyond when it could have been abandoned because it was entrenched both at the sawmill and at the manufacturers, maybe.

This kind of reminds me of the British system of artillery nomenclature-- a 4-pounder gun, for instance, or whatever. The cannon ball for a smooth bore gun of that diameter would be four pounds. However, this gun is not smoothbore, and would not use a spherical projectile, and yet they persisted in calling it a 4-pounder, even after they converted to metric and should have called it a 1.8-kilogrammer.  :-\

[beenthere]

So I'm guessing that it is one of those things where the meaning and purpose behind it has changed somewhat over time. I guess in the old days they cut a lot of lumber thinking in terms of quarters of an inch-- quite possibly the old time circle mills couldn't adjust any finer than that? So it was a matter of how many quarters of an inch did you want-- how many pulls on the lever to set the log over, or something like that? And the terminology continued on beyond when it could have been abandoned because it was entrenched both at the sawmill and at the manufacturers, maybe.
.............

Okra
Don't think you have it quite right there.    ;)
Maybe just a WAG?
But ok if you want to believe it.  ;D