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Author Topic: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)  (Read 4667 times)

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Offline Piston

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Since this might be a boring subject for many people, I decided to I would spice it up a little with some bonus pics at the end....However, you are only allowed to look at the pics at the AFTER reading through the post.  ;D

I need help deciding which blades to buy.  I know there are many answers and many different blades but I can't decide.  I will be buying the blades from woodmizer and went to they're website and typed in the specs so the handy 'blade selector thingy' would spit out some choices for me.

I typed in the mill type (LT15) the density of wood (softwood) and primary type (green) however under 'power' options there is no option for the lil ole 10hp diesel.  (by the way, every time I type "10hp diesel" it makes it sound smaller and smaller :D)

I chose "16-20hp gas" just because.....well, I don't know why but I had to choose something  :D

It spit out some choices...
Most were all .045X1-1/4X158
So easy enough right?

The first number....the thickness of the blade I'm sure, was either .045 or .042.  Now tell me somethin', does .003 of an inch really make that much of a difference in the cut?  Am I really gonna notice this difference?   is one stronger than the other?  I can't imagine that I will notice such a small difference?  If the .045 is stronger, I don't see any reason NOT to go with it....

The second number.....the width of the blade I assume.  Some were 1-1/4 wide and some were 1-1/2 wide.  So if my college background serves me well, I figure the most obvious difference is 1/4 inch of width.  (thank you college math teacher)
Now what are the advantages and disadvantages of these?  I can see the wider one maybe I'll get more sharpenings out of (I think I just made up a new word  ;D) but I know the bands get more and more 'week' as they are used, so will buying a wider blade give me more useful life out of it, or will it just eventually break anyways because it went around in circles a few hundred thousand times (I haven't confirmed the number of times as I always lose count ;D)

Okay the last number, obviously the length, this will of course remain unchanged. (unless I'm talking to my wife) :D

So that's that right?  NO! now I have to decide on the angle.  Seriously?   ???   4, 7, 9, 10, 13 How do I make these types of important decisions in my life??? 
Side note: does anyone know that handy code to use to make the little "Degree" symbol?  "ALT+245" or something?)

Back to business....After messing around with the type, softwood vs. hardwood/frozen, I come up with more choices..Great! just what I need, more choices.  I can't decide how many pieces of toilet paper I want to use and you want me to choose between blade angles I've never even used before??  This will drive me crazy.  :o

I've searched on here and came up with some good info, I know this has been discussed in the past (probably so many times that you guys don't want to talk about it anymore ;D) but I'm a new sawer guy that can't make these decisions without some help from all my friends I've never even met!  By the way, how come you guys who don't even know me, are more helpful than my friends I talk to every day?   :D  Thanks for that 8) 8) 8)


I have only used the standard blades that came with the mill when purchased.  I assume they are 10 (Insert cool little degree symbol here) blades.  I have used them with satisfaction but I do sometimes mill some very "naughty" pine (sounds kinky :D) and see the blade dip and rise over the knots.  I'm probably sawing too fast, using a dull blade, or don't have something set up right.  It hasn't been a problem because when this happens I change blades or slow the feed.  (Pretty genious of me eh?  Thanks again college)
I do think I'll start sawing some hardwoods soon as I plan to get some good sawing done this winter.  Also I'll be sawing frozen pine.  Should I try out a different blade?  I was thinking maybe the 7 or 9 (I NEED that dang symbol code >:() What are the disadvantages to using a smaller set (Didn't think I knew that word did ya?  ;D) in softwoods?

Sooooo, what do you guys suggest?


Just to make this thread more fun I'll throw up my most recent pics that really have nothing to do with my questions above  :D :D :D
 





















-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 11:04:59 AM »
I've used only 1.25 inch blades, but I've used .042 & .045 thickness and find that I can cut more board feet with the  .045 blades.

I use the Double-Hard blades exclusively.
~Chuck~
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 11:29:25 AM »
Think I remember WM saying the 042 blades are marketed as disposable blades.  I cut with 42hp and use 10's for regular softwood and switch to 9's if , when in wider or knottier wood, to be able to reduce waviness/increase sawing rate when necessary.   People here have said that 7's take more power than the others.  WM has told me to buy 2 or 3 individual blades to try them out and see what you think for myself when I ask about different blades.
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Offline pineywoods

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 11:41:59 AM »
Same as chuck here. I did stick a 1 1/2 .055 band on mine once just because I could. On the .042 vs .045, not much difference sawing, but I find the .045 holds the set longer. On the hook angle question, there's more to it than just the angle of the teeth. The gullets are somewhat different and are deeper on some. On a higher horsepower mill, you need a deeper gullet to hold more sawdust. I once made up some 15 deg bands to try. Cut like gangbusters on softwood but left too much dust in the kerf. With 10 hp you probably won't be able to tell much difference between the various pitches unless you saw some really hard stuff, like frozen logs, about which I know nothing...
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Offline nas

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 11:42:39 AM »
If you show us more pictures we might give more answers ;D  We like pictures 8)
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Indecision is the key to flexibility.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 12:50:11 PM »
I tthink the 10*, 042 is going to be your best bet for a general use blade. I know it's only 3/1000 difference in thickness but it will rob horse power. SAme with the width. You may be underpowered for an 1 1/2" blade.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 02:07:55 PM »
And from what I read you are underpowered for the 7 bands.  Personally, I would just give WM a call and they will be happy to listen to your sawing interest and recommend the correct band.

I did the "blade selector thingy", and it suggested what I use.  1"X10   smiley_thumbsup
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Offline bugdust

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 03:01:20 PM »
I agree with Magicman. I've had good success with 1" X 10 for general sawing, but will use 7 or 9 if the sawing gets a little harder. Having the power to pull the blade through the log is the real secret, along with keeping a good clean sharp blade turning on the wheels.
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Offline ely

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 04:35:03 PM »
pine takes a pretty wide set to cut properly, imo. if not the sap buildup will cause you to pull your hair out.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 09:15:54 PM »
Matt,how are you sharpening your bands if you use resharp you pretty much have to use mizer bands.Probibly .045 -1 1/4-10 as mentioned would work best, try a couple of 7 degree hook bands, they may bail you out on some problem logs.If you sharpen your own try different brands such as timberwolf,simonds ect. myself I prefer the wolf.Frank C.
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Offline paul case

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 11:08:11 PM »
my blades come in a box.


well i know a little more about them than that but when i talk to the blade manufacturers they dont want me to know the angle or maybe they really dont know.

nice pics. that chainsaw is made to cut upside down aparently?   pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
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sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Offline Brucer

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 01:16:39 AM »
nice pics. that chainsaw is made to cut upside down aparently?

Nope, he just reverses it each time he puts a new chain on. Like me ;D.
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Offline Meadows Miller

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 07:21:44 AM »


 but I'm a new sawer guy that can't make these decisions without some help from all my friends I've never even met!  By the way, how come you guys who don't even know me, are more helpful than my friends I talk to every day?   :D  Thanks for that 8) 8) 8)

Thats What we are here for Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) and why we are all here to help people we dont know is a good question  ;) :D which ill just speak for Myself when I say Its good to have a place where you can help other people with the same interests get ahead with less drama than some of us had nutting things out for ourselves as we went along or ask questions we might have Mate  ;) :D ;D ;D 8)




I have only used the standard blades that came with the mill when purchased.  I assume they are 10 (Insert cool little degree symbol here) blades.  I have used them with satisfaction but I do sometimes mill some very "naughty" pine (sounds kinky :D) and see the blade dip and rise over the knots.  I'm probably sawing too fast, using a dull blade, or don't have something set up right.  It hasn't been a problem because when this happens I change blades or slow the feed.  (Pretty genious of me eh?  Thanks again college)


Sooooo, what do you guys suggest?

Well I would suggest sticking with the degree your mill came with  ;) In an 1 1/2 .045  band which is all I ran for years on My little Jonsered bandmill with a 2095 motor with a whopping 9hp for power and did a good job when you didnt over do it remember they are only a small mill Mate  ;) :D ;D 8) 8)

With set you need more on pine as the sawdust sometimes dose not clear from the cut in the gullet and spills past onto the band body which creats a wave as it will push the saw up or down I use to set mine heavy and never had a problem with Band life i use to make sure I did not over tension the band and when I Sharpened them myself i use to make sure i took a good grind out of the bottom of the gullet to remove any cracks before they got too far I never broke many bands and use to get great life out of them  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

I hope this helps Mate  ;) ;D

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 08:33:07 AM »
nice pics. that chainsaw is made to cut upside down aparently?

Nope, he just reverses it each time he puts a new chain on. Like me ;D.


by the time i needed to change the chain on my 660 ''STIHL'' couldnt be read any more.  pc








life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Offline barbender

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 09:14:49 PM »
I had started using WM silvertip 10 blades, I think they are 042, on my manual mill, 13 hp gas. They cut real well on there. I tend to ruin a lot of blades so I went with the silvertips that a local saw shop is distributing, I get them for around $15 a blade. Now I have the LT40 super, and I bought another box of silvertips for that. I plan on getting a box of Doublehards for winter sawing in whatever hook and set woodmizer recommends for frozen wood, and that way I can start using Resharp as well. BTW, the degree sign is up in the special characters section when you are posing a reply
Too many irons in the fire

Offline paul case

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 11:05:00 PM »
 


as long as your teeth dont look like this you will probably be ok.pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Offline Brucer

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 12:28:40 AM »
...  Now tell me somethin', does .003 of an inch really make that much of a difference in the cut?  Am I really gonna notice this difference?   is one stronger than the other?  I can't imagine that I will notice such a small difference?  If the .045 is stronger, I don't see any reason NOT to go with it....

Yep, it can. The stiffness of a rectangular bar is proportional to the cube of it's thickness. That extra 3 thou makes your blade 23% stiffer (in the vertical direction).

A 0.055" blade is 83% stiffer than a 0.045" blade. Which becomes pretty obvious when you first try to fold one after only working with .045 blades :o.

by the time i needed to change the chain on my 660 ''STIHL'' couldnt be read any more.  pc

Good point. I change mine 4 or 5 times a week. About all I use the saw for is bucking Douglas-Fir, which has soft, thick, deeply fissured bark. Great for collecting rocks and dirt. It's faster for me to swap the chains and put the dull ones in the sharpener at home each night.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
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Offline Piston

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 04:24:54 AM »
Thanks for the good info guys  8)

It looks like I'll order another box of the 1X10 then.  I'll also ask WM what blades they recommend for frozen wood and maybe I can buy one or two of them like some others have done.  From the sounds of it, the 10 blades would be my best general purpose blade, I will just dial down the feed rate (i.e. not push/crank so hard) in especially knotty (there's that kinky stuff again ;)) wood.  Also I think by cutting against the knots (little end at the starting line) it helsp a bit with the blade wandering, as suggested by others in many of the threads I've gone through.   

As for the chainsaw blade being upside down check out- http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,33310.0.html

I put the saw on that timber so I would remember how big it was when looking back at the pics, that's a 25" bar on there.  I had a heck of a time trying to turn that log.  The next day I ordered two Logrite's, I only wish I got the big boy!  I believe that's called the Arky Special if I'm not mistaken?  ;D

I didn't think of the pine sap buildup on the lower set blades, thanks for pointing that out.  Also it's interesting how the depth of the gullet and set work together to pull the sawdust out of the wood.  I like to know "how" things work and I would be interested in more "how a band cuts wood" if anyone has any good descriptions for dummies  ;D

8) Thanks for the PM Chuck 8)  I'm loving these special characters, they remind me of myself! :D

I usually end up cutting the widest slabs I can off the cant when I'm working my way down to the center cut timbers.  I certainly notice the biggest 'fix' for wavy cuts is to slow the feed rate.  I also really enjoyed milling the 1X6's for my fence by making a bunch of 6" wide cants, putting 3 or so on the mill, and making 3 boards in each pass, its nice to see the quick progress  8)

I think I have the "" symbol down now, thanks again.  ;D

Nas,
I tried posting some more pics but my computer is acting up right now. 
-Matt
What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.

Offline barbender

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Re: Band selection question (boring question but includes bonus pics!)
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2010, 05:39:58 PM »
I've found that I can't let pine or other conifer sap build up on my blades no matter the set, or they are diving like crazy. Keep 'em clean ;)
Too many irons in the fire


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