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Author Topic: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????  (Read 4792 times)

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Offline KMAN

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E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« on: November 30, 2010, 08:44:09 PM »
 :'(

this is my second season using my e-classic and as far as I am concerned there is nothing enviromental friendly about this stove. When it fires up it smoke so bad that if i lived near other houses and if the wind was going the right way people would think my house is on fire. This thing puffs smoke more then a cigeratte factory on fire. sometimes it burns that way the complete time until it finally reaches 185 and shuts off which is very long because it is not firing correctly. I call my wife through the day just to hear the news "is it smoking" Yes it is still smoking. Why did i not save the money and buy the one that smoke is expected then i would not be so disappointed. I thought i would do the right thing and so my neighbors that are nearest to me would not get smoked out. Turns out it smokes worse then a friend of mind that has a 15 year old classic, and I also should have got to know my 1 neighbor better because turns out i cant get along with him anyway so if i could blow some smoke his way that would be cool. Anyway I have read everybodys post out there and have done just about everything I know to do. My dealer drilled the holes and broke the bricks out and after that it seem to burn great for about 2 weeks then smoke and I mean smoke from there on out. So shut it off cleaned everything and I mean everything and started it back up. seem to clear up after about 15 minutes when i got some coals in the firebox. Next day look out and the blasted thing is smoking. This is a love/hate relationship with this thing. When it is burning perfect I feel like the king of the hill 8), when it is smoking I am thinking when will this get up to temp. and shut off so i can forget about it for a few minutes. My wood was cut last year and i split it this summer and had it all stacked by July 4th. What i am wondering is my firewood the problem. I get all my wood from a tree cutter so they chip everything under 16 inches accross so when he calls me to pick wood up it is big stuff so he cuts it very thin so i can at least roll them. So most of my pieces are about 12 inches long. Is that causing me a problem since it sits right over top of the grate? My temperture is set at 180/185 and that seems fine. It seems like i cant keep a good coal bed. My ashes are not red out they are warm but not red hot. So that makes me think wood is not dry but it is covered and stacked since summer and it was a very dry summer in PA.
Any thoughts would be great and sorry for the long complain section, but i really want this thing to operate like it should. If this passed emission test then it should not smoke and when i say my smokes I mean it pumps the smoke out that you can see far away. KMAN

Offline hockeyguy

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 09:39:26 PM »
Some things that come to mind from my experience:
Do you have a pulse air timer? I haven't lost a bed of coals since I installed mine. Keeps it good and hot.

Are you sure that wood is good and dry? This would have been a good summer to take those tarps off and get the full benefit of all that sun and wind. I tried to burn some marginally seasoned pine in Oct. and found out the e classic really didn't work well.(maybe I should have followed CB's directions)  Once I smartened up and started burning well seasoned splits it's run like a champ. A good bed of coals is the key.

Have you checked for air leakage through the front door gasket or bypass door?
C.B. does recommend wood 20 to 24" in length. 12" seem too short to me.
Good luck

Offline doctorb

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 09:51:21 PM »
KMAN-

Frustrating.  It is definitely a multivariable thing, this E-2300.  I live in northern Baltimore county, about 15 minutes from the PA line.  How far am I from you?  I would be willing to take a trip up there and look for myself, becasue I don't have the problems that you describe, and I think I understand the stove and can trouble shoot.

One thing is for sure, if it's smoking that much, you are not getting gasification and not getting efficient burning in this furnace.  Let me know.  While I hear others blame their smokling on water content of the wood, you should be OK is your wood was split, stacked and covered by July 4.  While it may not be perfect fuel, and I am in the same boat, this is certainly some another problem and not just wet wood. 

You can put you location down on the map under your profile.  It doesn't have to be tooooo accurate, if you  don't want it to be, but it will give me an idea of where you are located.  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline jeff4955

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 10:28:23 PM »
Make sure your bypass door is closed all the way. I never use mine, but I only put wood in it when it is in idle mode so as to eliminate roasting your door gasket. Have you checked your fusion combuster? Mine went bad during my second season and I noticed that it smoked more. Short wood I do not think is a problem as I burn plenty of short stuff. Is not that difficult to get these things to work properly if every thing mechanically is ok. I would take up doctorb on his offer as he's got it figured out. You'll get it figured out.  Jeff

Offline jason1977

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 10:32:25 PM »
jeff
how did u get in there to make sure the bypass was closed all the way i look at mine to see if mine was closed and i could hardly get in there to clean it

Offline jeff4955

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 10:42:52 PM »
Jason take off the round exhaust cover on the back of the stove and look for smoke or light. Or have somebody shine a real bright light in from the front and look for any light from the back side. I do not use my bypass door unless absolutely necessary as that is your best source for a leak. The firebox has to be sealed because the firebox needs to be pressurized in order to force the combustion air down through the coal bed. Hope this helps,Jeff

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 04:41:54 AM »
Forced air Fawcet in house furnace. Seasoned wood and hardly a whiff of smoke.  8) Neighbor's OD wood furnace, burning green fresh cut wood, yard full of smoke, digging wood out of snow drifts in the yard.  smiley_thumbsdown



All kidding aside though, they would be great for sawmill owners with lots of slabs to be rid of. But, buying 30 cords of wood to heat a house and a green house for 2-3 months doesn't seem wise. I know not everyone goes through that kind of wood, but not everyone lives above the snow blizzard line. :D I've burnt less than a cord in 3 months.
Move'n on.

Offline doctorb

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 07:23:29 AM »
While I am going to continue to use, and clean, my bypass door, I otherwise agree with Jeff.  If something is holding that bypass door open, it will smoke like hell, burn too much wood, and be very frustrating.  I think CB had an upgrade on the leveraqge mechanism that opens and closes the door.  I could be wrong about exactly the part they upgraded, but I would make sure that part of the system is not your problem.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline doctorb

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 07:47:58 AM »
One easy way to check whether you have a good seal at the bypass door is to watch your stove's stack when the fans are off, that is, when the cycle is in idle mode.  If you have smoke coming out during that time period, even a little smoke, then the bypass door is not sealed.  Don't check this the second after the fans shut down, wait a few minutes to allow any retained smoke in the exhaust pathway to dissipate first.  Normally, the fire smolders during this idle period, and smoke collects in the firebox.  It should remain trapped there, as, without the fans going and with the bypass door shut, it can not escape down through the coal bed and out the stack.  Therefore, with the fans off, there should be no smoke!  Just a tip.  doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline ken999

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 08:33:50 AM »
Have you pulled the solenoids off and cleaned the airway into the stove?

When you are going to be home for the day (this weekend maybe?), turn the controller down to 150 and let the water jacket cool until the stove tries to fire. Make sure you leave enough charred wood in the stove to get a good hot fire going (don't burn the stove empty beforehand), but NOT too much as to be covering the airholes. A nice mound in the center will be good. Dig around in the firebox, makeing sure all the airholes are clear, then light the stove and reset the controller to 195 so the boiler can get a nice long run in high burn mode. Once the stove is lit, poke a hole down into the Fusion Chamber, making sure it's not plugged, maybe add just a couple peices of wood, then let the stove run for a while. After a half hour or so it should be running good with no smoke. Add in some more firewood, making sure to not plug up Fusion Chamber.

I do this routine ALOT if I'm going to be home. These stoves run pretty good on their own, but they run GREAT if you let them run these long burns in high mode.

Good dry wood is very important and I'm finding that a good stash of bone dry White Pine (or other softwood) is very handy to have as it seems to run real hot in these long burns, keeping the innards of the stove real clean. Lately I've come off from my summer burn mode (see thread: http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41487.0.html ) and have had the stove stuffed with hardwood and idleing off and on all day long. The stove is all tarred up inside again. Time to run some hot Pine in it for a few cycles and burn it all off.

Good luck...don't hesitate to call CB either. They have been way more helpfull than my dealer.

Offline beenthere

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 11:34:42 AM »
Must have to have some good auxillary heat source to have one of these OWB's for all the down time.  ::) ::)

No offense, but seems their GREAT time is not so often.

Tested under ideal fuel loads (wood with perfect MC and species and size) makes it hard to duplicate in actual use with a wide variety of fuel sources (wet, all species, rot, bark, etc.).
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline doctorb

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 02:11:20 PM »
For those who might find beenthere's comments a little mysterious, I suggest reading the end of a previous thread under "Alternative Methods..." entitled "New E-Classic Owner".  You will find his and Bioman's insight into the testing and politics of outdoor burners very educational.  Their analysis is at the end of the thread, so start about September 20, 2010 and find out how much we really don't know! 

KMAN-  sent you a PM.  Let's see if we can get together and solve this thing!  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline Gary_C

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2010, 02:57:23 AM »
I have had my Central Boiler CL 6048 running just about a year now. I thought about buying a E Classic but since I had plenty of wood and the E Classic cost about $2K more, I stuck with the older style.

That CL 6048 smokes very little, my wife puts wood in it every morning, and it never gets even looked at till the next day. Next day, same story. She now says not to split the wood anymore as it lasts longer. But my wood is mostly all red oak and is well aged in the log.

The house stays at exactly the same temp all the time. The hot water is a little too hot, but not bad. Tempering valve is turned all the way down. Electric bill goes down about $50 per month when the OWB is started and the electricity is turned off to the hot water heater. Haven't burned a drop of oil last year or this year. And did I say that I rarely see even a wisp of white smoke, never any blue. And it doesn't seem to burn much wood, but I don't keep track.

Biggest problem I've had was the dealer I got the stove from and installed it was a shyster and not only screwed up the install but tried to charge me waay to much. Had to take him to court and even the judge got mad at him. Ended up the judge accepted what I said I owed him and then said it was all he deserved.

Boy am I glad I did not buy an E Classic. I've got better things to do than babysit one of those DanG'ed things.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline KMAN

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2010, 08:16:37 PM »
Doctorb or should I say E-Classic Doctor!!
Anyway tonight when i got home being dark i started to play around with the stove the best I could. The coal bed is below the air holes except the 2 in the back were slightly blocked but it was red coals so i dont think that would have been the issue. Anyway moved that around and I also have a 6FT rebar rod that I bent a 90 degree bend on the one end and ground a nice point on it so if the holes were filling up it would go in and then the rod is the size of the hole and it cleans them out real nice. Also I am a small engine mechanic so I took a inner trimmer flex shaft from a weed wacker and pushed it through all the holes. That worked real well since those flex shafts are like sewer snakes but smaller (maybe i should market that to Central Boiler as a tool). Anyway the holes are clean. I then went to the back and pulled the top solenoid/elbow assy off and there was some build up in there but what has me more concern is there was water in there. anyway scraped that out and cleaned out installed that. Now here is another thing that i did. That top solenoid was marked 1/2 and I assume that means that it should be open 1/2 when running. So i kicked it on and seen that it was around 1/2 but very slightly lower. So i loosen those screws up, but did not take them out and slide that complete solenoid up about 1/4 inch or so but no more then that. fired the bad boy up and as of this time since i got inside I see no smoke. Now that brings me to this and that is you could be my hero. There is also this possiablity that I got lucky tonight and my hope and high spirits will be crushed tomorrow. The other thing is maybe my wife was praying and saying I wish he would just stop messing around with this stove since he is spending more time with that stove then he is with me and her prayers were answered. anyway right now I am on cloud nine and praying that i can stay there. Just for kicks i removed the side panel and fired it up and that is the first time I seen it start that gasifaction process since I owned the stove. Before I would have to open the door and shut it and then it would start to fire, but tonight I could see it working just like that gentleman that posted the video. So i am feeling awesome tonight and really hoping i got it. Sweet  8)

Offline DBRACKETT

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 06:27:09 AM »
Glad to hear that you may be started on the right track and hope it continues for you! As a new owner this year and only having run the stove a couple of months, I have been impressed with the stove most of the time so far most of my issues have been loading and learning the stoves personaility. Not overloading mixing the right combanation of wood for the weather conditions and temperture outside has been my biggest challenges. I will also say that it's the warmest the house has been in the ten years that we have lived here other than we had the wood chuck furnace running on weekends. I'm trying to keep a log of the year in hopes that I can help others at this forum in the future. Between this forum and the dealer I purchased this stove from the tips here and from him really has sped up the learning curve for me.

Dan

Offline doctorb

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2010, 02:05:18 PM »
KMAN-  keep me posted.  Glad the checklist of tasks I sent worked for you.  

Gary_C-  There have been many posts here from frustrated E-2300 owners (like mine in Jan 2010), and many posts here from non-gasification OWB owners who take comfort in their boiler's simplicity.  Anyone who has had an "old-style" burner, like yours, who switches to a gasification model is disappointed with the extra effort and diligence these models require.  That's understandable.

However, when understood and running correctly, the gasification models run rings around the older technology.  I have visited many friends with older style OWH's.  On each occasion, these units smoked much more than mine ever does, leaves the smell of smoke thoughought the house if the unit is located close to it, and they burn more wood than I do.  Remember that, for these older models, that smoke is a by-product of heat production.  For gasification models, that smoke IS the fuel for heat production.  These units appear quite similar on the outside, but are much different in their internal design.  Add in that some states, including mine, don't leave us a choice in the matter, and you end up learning to operate a more intricate machine out of necessity, just like KMAN is learning.  Remember, nobody could program a VCR when it came out either!  I wish it were as easy as "just chuck the wood in....", but it's not.  The benefits of gasification technology, once understood, are, however, quite tangible and real, and IMHO, worth it.   Doctorb

My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline KMAN

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2010, 10:36:22 PM »
Doctorb
It is working OK today i would not say perfect yet. I plan to print your list of suggestions and go to work on it tomorrow since i am off work. I can diffently tell there is more air getting into the fire box because the flame in the lower combustion area almost shoots out the door when i have that panel off. So my question is do i have to much air going into it now and will that hurt anything? I will say that seems to make a huge difference and burns much better. The one thing that still bugs me is tonight it was burning fairly good could not see hardly any smoke just a trace but when it shut down smoke was coming out the stack. So i pulled the rear chimney cap off to check bypass door but it was so smokey i could not see, so I pulled the panel off for the passages that go down into the combustion area and smoke poured out. Once it cleared up i could see that no smoke was coming from the bypass door and that it must have been coming from the combustion area. That wonders me why that smoke was there after running. any thoughts on that? Anyway i plan to check the list of things tomorrow.

I have seen some other replys out there about why spend the money for this thing and that was my thoughts but yet in mind this is the way to go and after having a day or so where it is burning much better it makes it worth while. I understand that there is a learning curve however i would never have guessed it would have been this long. Like someone said last year on this forum sometimes it is better to let it go and stop poking around it. There might be truth in that. There is nothing more exciting then to look out side to see if you see smoke and you dont and sitting in a nice warm house that is costing you almost nothing to operate then some physical labor which never hurt anybody. So i dont want to bash E-Classic because they are the thing of the future but maybe what Central Boiler should do is hold classes in different areas that people could attend and learn. That is what we have to do for small engines we have to go to annual updates to learn about the product, maybe there would be value in having them at dealers for future buyers and past sales. Just a thought.

Again thanks for everybodys thoughts and I hope there is a day that i can help others out, because I really do like bragging to friends that my heat is almost free. KMAN


Offline John Mc

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2010, 08:34:48 AM »
KMAN -

When you say in your original post that your wood was cut last year, do you mean it was cut to it's final length, or just cut into long logs? If it was long logs, the drying process would be very slow. 12" lengths, should dry out fairly well, if they were stored properly (stacked off the ground and in a way to allow good air circulation). I can see a noticeable difference in wood that was cut to "log length" (8 ft, or even 4 feet long) then bucked to stove length and split much later, versus wood that I cut right to stove length right from the start. I can also see a difference in burn characteristics if I cut wood and stack it under my lean-to (roofed, open on 3 sides) when it's green or only partially dry and the rows are butted one right up against the other (poor air flow to carry the moisture away).

I don't know if any of this is a problem for you, but something to think about. One way to test this is to borrow a moisture tester, cut one of your logs in half, and test the moisture in the middle of the fresh cut section. (Got any friends who are fairly serious woodworkers? They probably have a tester.) You want to be under 20% moisture content. 15-20% seems to be the best range (there is such a thing as too dry).

I'm not advocating moisture checking all of your wood, or even on a regular basis, but it might help you to rule out one potential source of the problem.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline hockeyguy

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2010, 10:45:58 AM »
KMAN,
My e classic runs well but always has a bit of usually white wispy smoke coming from the stack for a few minutes after the fan shuts off. It seems to me this would be normal as there is still a bit of draft pulling out of the firebox.

Offline doctorb

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Re: E-Classic Still Smokes When Will it Get Better???????????
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2010, 12:57:17 PM »
KMAN-

I would not, just becasue the unit's smoking, check the turbinator (sp.?) column off the back of the stove or the bypass door exit when the unit is running.  I mean even in idle mode.  If you are going to clean those areas, as well as the reaction chamber, let the fire burn down to a small bed of coals to try to avoid the need for a restart.  It's better to start from scratch then to be burned or smoked out!

You can play with the solenoid adjustment, but I never have.  I  wonder if your adjustment did not permit the solenoid to close all the way, permiting some air to enter the firebox during idle periods and increasing the smoldering of your wood, producing this "idle" smoke.

If the fire was really hot before shutdown, then it will smolder for some time.  From the sounds of it, you had enough residual draft to permit air flow, and smoke, through the coal bed and down through the RC and into the exhaust pathway.  If the smoke was in the tubinator columns, and not via the bypass door, then I would assume the bypass door shuts adequately.

The type of smoking you describe can also be fuel related.  I agree with John Mc, check the MC of the wood if you can, and see if it runs less smokey with dryer fuel.  

I see some smoke from my unit after it kicks back on.  This is the period of forcing air back through the smoldering coals.  As this increases combustion and heat, gasification starts, and the smoke lessens over a 5-10 minute time period to nothing.  It's not foolproof, however, and when it's not working properly, the smoking will let you know.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."


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