Breaking in a New Saw

[John R]

Do you guy's do anything special when breaking in a new saw?
I run the gas/oil mixture a little richer, I mix a one gallon bottle of oil to .8 of a gallon of gas.
I then run this mix through the saw and call it good.
I also try to not run the saw flat out during this time.

What do you do?

[DouginUtah]

I run the gas/oil mixture a little richer, I mix a one gallon bottle of oil to .8 of a gallon of gas.

Did you say what you meant? More oil than gas?  ???
The more oil in the mixture, the less gas. So you would be running extremely lean, gas-wise.

[thecfarm]

He means one of those small oil mix bottles that is made to mix with a gallon of gas. Ask your dealer,he should know.I have not bought a new saw for 5-6 years.  ;D  Seems like I ran it like I do now. I still mix oil on the heavy side.I do 4¼-4½ to a 5 gallon mix bottle. I also use only high test too. IMHO.

[John R]

He means one of those small oil mix bottles that is made to mix with a gallon of gas. 

Yeah, that's what I meant, after reading it I see that I said one gallon of oil, wonder if it would even run that rich?
If it did, bet it'd smoke like hell.   :D

[tyb525]

Let's not open that can of worms : :D

[DouginUtah]

Ya, I shoulda known. Now I feel stupid.  ;D

[bandmiller2]

John R.,I don't get many new saws but when I do just use the 50/1 but cut easy for a couple of tank fulls.Vary the saw speed not flat out all the time and don't overload and slow the saw down,helps the chain run in to. Frank C.

[Rocky_J]

I run synthetic oil (usually Stihl brand) at 50-1 in everything so I'm not mixing separate gas when I add a new saw to the rotation. I usually don't really push them hard in the cut until they have at least 5-10 minutes run time on them. By that point they are dirty and the honeymoon is over, time to get to work.

All my saws are run hard and maintained well, regardless if they are a week old or 13 years old. The absolute most critical factor is never cutting with a dull chain. Keep the chain sharp and you can get more done with less effort. The saws will not work as hard and will cut much faster. I've seen saw owners who consistently dull the chain by their second cut and will force the poor saw for another couple hours before finally giving up and buying a new chain (by then the chain is too far gone to sharpen anyway). On the internet it's impossible to tell the competent sawyers from the incompetents but my real life experience tells me that 75% of saw users can't sharpen a chain and don't know what it's like to use a sharp chain. The chain sharpness is about 100 times more important than most any other factor.

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

Well, this is a Subject that is near & dear to my heart and I just covered this ground about a 3 months ago on FF.

I bought two saws, a Solo 681 and Efco 151 and read the book on both of them. The Solo guidance was to >> Not to run the engine at full throttle for the 1st few tank fulls of gas (break-in period).  So I did this and operated about 3/4 throttle and lightly loaded the saw as I cut fire wood .

One of the guys that know's saws.. pointed out that most saw carb's. don't function correctly at other throttle settings.. other than Full Throttle. So, I could  be operating the saw in a lean conditon amd harming the -- cyl. , rings and piston this way (running hot).  I buy that 100%,  So, I corrected myself and ran full throttle and lightly loaded the saw. I 've run about 4 tanks of high test gas through the saw & min. is 92 octane for the Solo.  I did notice that the Solo saw is about broke in and runs free'rr now... if I can say it that way.

The Efco book said... to Not hold the throttle wide open when the saw was Not Under Load until... it beaks-in.  I understand all that and never hold a throttle wide open (any eng.) when it's not under load.. unless I'm doing a check to confirm full throotle RPM.

Mixing the gas.. I had helpful feed back here too... from the FF members.

The Solo and the Efco specified  50:1  ( 02% Oil to Gas ratio) mix with the name brand oil they called out in their operator manual.

They wanted  25:1  (04% Oil to Gas Ratio) for generic type (more oil per gal)  oil that was not called out by name brand in their manual.

So here's the deal,  and I have all the 2 cycle mix bottle's and with my glasses on I can read the little lines and get the right mix figured out.  I set up my computer with a little spread sheet and this took about 5 minutes.

Figure 128 Fuild Oz's in a Gal.  Divide by 128 by 25 (25:1) and get 5.12 oz's for the 25:1 to Ratio.

Figure 128 Fuild Oz's in a Gal.  Divide by 128 by 50 (50:1) and get 2.56 oz's for the 50:1 to Ratio.

I used 32 : 1 for my fuel mix for the Break In mix for both the saws for added lube insurance (break-in), see mix below and easy to figure  4 oz's per gal for 32 : 1 mix.
 
Figure 128 Fuild Oz's in a Gal.  Divide by 128 by 32 (32:1) and get 4.00 oz's for the 32:1 to Ratio.  

Just double the amount's (above) for 2 gal's and so on by 128 fuild oz's per gal. X's ___ Oz's.

Other Items: Buy any Name Brand Two Cycle mix that's recommended (name brand) by Saw Maker and mix at 50 : 1 { if that's the correct mix for your specific saw. Most of the saw maker's want you to buy their oil mix and a marketing ploy by them.

** However, do not buy Boat 2 Cycle Mix and use it in your saw. Boat 2 cycle mix... ain't the right stuff for chainsaws. It's  designed for cooler running (water cooled) boat engines.  Also, the guys are buying name brand chain lube at Wallmart and TS and trying to buy it on sale at their local saw shops, just read that yesterday on FF.

Well, I covered the topic, too much perhaps but this info. is correct and if Not I will be corrected.

Good Luck, I ain't had a new saw in 45 years and still tickled 3 months later.


Avery  

[ladylake]

 As mentioned no long hard cuts and make sure it'd not running lean, quite a few are thanks to the EPA.  I wonder what make more pollution, having a saw set lean and burning it up and having to make another saw or having them set right. Steve

[Al_Smith]

Well a  good old fat gent,Mr Claus of north pole fame gave me a new can opener so out comes the fabled can of worms .

Firstly the ratio of oil to gasoline has not a thing to do with a saw running lean .That is the ratio of fuel to air not fuel to oil . Some like myself being a dinosaur in so many words prefer 32 to 1 and some prefer 40 or 50 to one .The bottom line to that is they all work well .Sooooo use whatever floats you're boat and kind of wish others well and let it go at that .

As far as ye olde new saw ,or after a rebuild I personally set the fuel to air ratio a tad bit on the rich side for a period of time and run the saw like I stole it .Come or bleed is my motto .After a tad I lean -er out and drop the reins . Hi Oh Silver,now we're cutting . 8)

[black]

Stihl oil mixed 50/1, I hammer a new saw from the first run just like an old saw.
The chainsaw chain is like a butcher knife, it should be kept sharp not sharpened when it is blunt, but I don't always practice what I preach.  :D

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

Just a Little More Info. on Break-in of Any Engine when New.

Generally Speaking.. Engines have increased friction from machined (raised surfaces) surfaces when the parts are newly assembled. The parts rotate together and through a period of time  break-in. The surfaces wear into each other and a give & take exchange (slip & slide). Once these running parts establish a running fit.. the frction is less and the rings have seated to the cylinder wall.

I have worked for Cummin's Diesel and built & dyno tested the engine's I have built up. We would go Full power for only five minutes at the close of the six hour dyno run. Looking at the ring surface by eye but best with 10 X mag. .. the ring surface has a slight crown (rounded surface).  In the beginning of any engine's life the ring is Not fully seated to the cyl. wall surface. If you place the engine under full load and specifically a >>   2 cyl. engine, you may the have the misfortune to run a lean mixture (by chance) as well.  If Full Power and Lean, then, bad things will happen. The cyl. is over (dam hot) heated and the piston will swell and scuff the sides.  You will see an exchange of metal from the piston skirt to the cyl. wall. When the rings were Not seated the engine compression pressure flowed by the piston rings and wiped the lube off the cyl. walls (glazzed cyl. walls). Consequentally, in a short period of time the cyl. is wrecked, go get your fat wallet and fork out the big $$ bucks for repair.

During a proper break-in, the rings have a chance to seat, they will form the correct seat to the cyl. wall surface and be able to hold the full power (Max. pressure) without (excessive) blow gasses by-passing the rings. When you look at proper ring seating on a ring... you will see the crowned surface has a frosted grey look on the ring face surface. It's harder to see on a small thickness ring in a chainsaw but it's the same deal in any engine and can be seen with a 10 X mag. glass.

We all have our ways of breaking in a engine and many go full throttle from day one. I have done that when I was not in the engine building business. I understand the break-in process a little better now. I have friend's in the race engine business and they use engine rotaters to break in their engine's. I think they rotate their engines for about six hours or more to seat the rings to the cyl. wall. They use a cyl. by-pass compression checker to check the rings for proper seating and continue to break-in the engine if the compression values are too low.

Have a Great Day.

Avery

[Al_Smith]

If you really want  to get techincal , L A sleeve used to sell  "lapping cylinders " where by new rings could be micro finished prior to operation . Of course it's doubtfull many would go to those extremes .Never the less unless the cylinder was tapered badly or had a fair amount of ovality the new rings will seat on a rebuild given enough time .Once they get fully seated the increase in performance will be noticeable .

On  new saw engines with modern manufacturing processes they are not like the older engines .These things will get with it in very short order  by comparison  .These are not your fathers Oldsmobile nor your granddads Homelite .

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I'm aware of better ring seat (break-in) rates with todays saws. The Saw Co's still call out out a  break-in period. The ring's are not fully seated and ring seat is still a factor but much less with todays engines. We (today) have... higher manuf. tolerances and improved ring design and materials.  I did not try to go into anything that was over the top (not needed).  I've honed cyl's., set my hone's at the correct speed for the correct cross hatch and all that. Tried to point out in general... what happen's from day one with a new engine (with todays saws as well). My Solo 681 has about 8 hours on it and it's just starting to run free'rr (break-in).  

Take care

Avery

[Al_Smith]

Well for what it's worth I have a Stihl 038 Mag that I rebuilt and ported and it took me the best part of one summer to get it break  in .That however was cutting 10-15 minutes at a time out of a huge pile of oak to reduce the size to firewood length .

There is also a Mac 125 that had a screwed up cylinder which I made a cast iron sleeve for maybe 6-8 years ago .It has not yet had enough run time to seat those rings but otherwise runs great .Kind of hard to find big enough stuff to justify running  that large of a saw .

[black]

Engine bottom ends (2 stroke 4 stroke) don't need breaking-in, all the parts are cut to perfect tolerance. If those parts had to wear in that would cause movement and the machine wouldn't last. The material of the rings are different to old day rings, they seat.
Building a diesel Cummins is much more $ compared to a chainsaw. The diesel runs for years were the chainsaw if working daily will need ring every 12 - 24 months.
When a saw is in the wood its rpm is lower.
If you really want to be a perfectionist break it in but price wise I myself can't justify it.

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

Bottom End is Not addressed as Break-in and only a very small factor to be considered in regard to break-in or running friction.

Ring Break-in  for:  Diesel or Gas engine's  is still a break-in and wear-in factor. The rings are  Not Pre-Run  in the Saw Eng. (before you buy it) and this ring and cyl. (seating) relationship is on-going in any engine. It takes only a few hours to obtain a good ring seat to the cyl. wall.  I'll (best estimate.) say that from day one, your ring seat is about 60% to 70% on the 1st tank of gas. From here, you'll have continued ring seating.. right up to 98% to 99 %.  Over time, the rings will loose their seat and go back the other way.. caused by wear (mostly). You'll see the 1st signs by... darker smoke, harder starting and power and then white smoke when the compression pressure falls below 50 to 60 PSI or so.

Bottom Line... We buy a saw and put it to work and most folks hardly read the operator manual.  I read mine because I was unfamiliar with both the saws I bought. I needed to know what the recommended oil/ gas mixture was, needed the starting procedure and it was a little different then what I'm use to.  

(Ref. Post above)  Operational RPM is (for me) the same in the woods or around the house or anywhere I'm sawing. Other than break-in period <lighter load of saw in cut) ... it's Full On (WOT)... Rock n' Roll.... Let the Chips Fly !

All in all, put the Saw to Work, mix the gas & 2 cycle oil correctly, keep the gas mix clean & fresh, use good bar oil, have a file & extra file and saw wrench handy & spare chain. Keep the saw up.. clean the air filter, blow out air passages from sawdust around cyl., lube nose tip and sprocket as req., pull the bar and clean the caked dirt & oil build up out, flip the bar for better wear. File the bar rails when they need it.

Items on hand -- spare Tank Filter, Spark Plug, Length of Starter Cord, Xtra Air Element, Sprocket, Nose Tip, Assorted Saw Screws/Bolt & Nuts, Saw Multi Tool with brass spark plug cleaner brush, extra bar & chain(s) << if these items are affordable. When screws back out and get loose (won't stay tight), re-install them with Non Permenent Lock Tite or Star Locks or both.  Don't wait untill the hole(s) is completely ruined and you need to have a heli-coil(s) installed. Keep the chain sharpen up so the saw eng. is  Not Working Hard and over heating (over loaded).  Keep the chain adjusted correctly, don't run it too loose or tight and cause un-necessary wear to it or get pinched in a cut and damage the chain and bar tip by yanking hard on the saw.. cut your self free to get out of trouble.

I'm retired and cutting 200 yards from my house (firewood). I use to take a a water proof  Tote Bag (X Military type)  to the woods.  I had all my (above) stuff in there. The Tote Bag was really handy to have and could deal with any routine saw problem on the spot. I took a hard backed tool kit with all the scockets (1/4 to 3/8) and torque tips, etc. to fix my smaller equipment (saws).  I'd take a back up saw and it was ready to go as well. We all get hung up from time to time or our No# 1 Saw quit's, won't start or whatever.

I have learned to keep my saw protected from damage... so it does not bounce around in the back of the pick up, the saw has a safe place on the tractor to ride & can't be knocked out or crushed by limbs.  In the woods.. I try to place my saw & smaller off loaded gear  between two trees when I'm not using them. I use these barrier trees as a safe area when I'm moving equipment or logs around so my gear is not damaged. This happen's (crushed saws) everyday in the woods with multi folks working out there (perhaps Not together :( ) together or you have brain fart and/or tired and then... crushed saw.

When in Doubt,  Run it till she Blow's and buy another one { :D dumb joke).

The Pro's know all this stuff already... like their last name... so this Info. is (mostly) for the new guys that are asking question's and starting out.      


Avery

[JohnG28]

When in Doubt,  Run it till she Blow's and buy another one.

Avery
[/quote


Im not so sure I will use that theory with my saws. ;)

[Al_Smith]

 :D That old saying of "run -er 'til she blows " is just an old sayng like break a leg or here's mud in your eye .A figure of speech not to be taken literaly . ;)

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I Intended the >> When in Doubt, Run it until it blows and buy another. << as a Joke.  I guess, I should have said that in black & white (twisted joke).  I'm maint. minded & careful with all the equipment I own. I have never lost a engine and if it need's   fixed... I fix it right away. However, some folks do or say >> Run her till She Blows !  I've read those (like) words here and made a dumb joke because of this mind set.

Avery

[JohnG28]

 :D I realize that Al and Avery, was just poking a little holiday fun.

[Al_Smith]

 :D I've never ran one hard enough for it to fly apart like a dollar Ingersal watch However for reason unknown last summer I had a 335 Huskey sieze tight as a bulls butt at fly time on start up . I haven't delved into that one yet but will in time . ???

[northwoods1]

I love the smell of when your cutting with a new saw :D kind of like having that new car smell in an automobile. Must be the paint burning off the muffler or something, but it is fun to go to work when you saw is shiny brand new that is for sure 8)

[Al_Smith]

  I'm not real familiar  with that "new saw " smell .