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Author Topic: Chain sharpening  (Read 4789 times)

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Offline black

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Chain sharpening
« on: December 25, 2010, 03:54:07 PM »
Do any of you guys only sharpen by grinder? I always use a file kit but it is time consuming and I think it would be easier to take a couple of chains with every day.
When they done change them and sharpen them later on the grinder.

Online pineywoods

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 04:00:19 PM »
don't even own a file any more. If that ain't enough, I use a harbor freight grinder..I keep spare chains and use the grinder as a touch-up. swap the chains out before they get dull dull.
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Offline H60 Hawk Pilot

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 06:33:56 PM »
I have three different types -- Round File, DC Elec. rotary grinder and Upscale Elec. Grinder. I have found out the file is the best answer for me.  Also, I just asked the question (forgot my exact ques. on FF) a few weeks ago and got some good advice. One of the FF member's used his elec. grinder to staighten his teeth up when they get damaged and files from that point... on a day to day basis.

My reason for using the file over my expensive grinder is the end result. I'm careful how I hold the file and the job I do, and use a good light to see the tooth as I file it. The round file does a great job getting in the exact spot it should be and filing the cutter as it should be filed.  I did two chains on my machine and had the wheel dressed properly and set on the money.  I had a decent result but I can  beat it with a good quaility file (careful filing). The rotary 12 Volt hand grinder is Ok but overal...it did not impress me over the file.

Also, I like the convienance of the filing (when needed on the spot) and carrying a extra chain or two is a great idea.  If I cut alll day with the same saw, I touch the chain up when it's cutting a little off (slow) and it takes less than 10 minutes. You will get a number of responses about this subject. This is my preference and plan on using my elec. grinder to clean up a damaged chain

Good Luck,

Avery
 
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Offline bill m

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 08:19:50 PM »
Unless I rock a chain really bad I hand file all the time. Sharper chain and faster.
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Online ladylake

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 08:27:01 PM »
 I use a grinder 100%, 4 to 5 minutes off the saw sharpen and back on and they cut better than new. Filing might get them a hair sharper but it won't stay that way very long.  Steve
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Offline Rocky_J

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 09:00:29 PM »
Unless I rock a chain really bad I hand file all the time. Sharper chain and faster.

Ditto. Badly rocked chains will be brought home and worked on the bench when I have time. Everything else gets touched up on the job as called for. I mounted a bench vise on my truck to facilitate chain sharpening on the jobsite. It's on top of the cabinet which holds my mix fuel and bar oil so it's very convenient.

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2010, 09:27:59 PM »
No substitute for looking carefully at what the chain needs.   if more than about 3-4 file strokes, like tips bent broken or rounded, take it to the grinder.  Measure so you get the same tooth length on both sides.   Otherwise file strokes with a file and preferably a guide that keeps the file near the top of the tooth, on the saw, or with the chain hanging in a bar in a vise, is all it needs.  And always check the depth gauges on the bar or on a bar in the vise.  I repeat NO substitute for looking carefully at what the chain needs.  If I need a light or glasses to see, which I do, I put them on.  If filing is slower than grinding it's because your file is worn out or something's not right with your setup.  You need to throw away files and use fresh ones like you do with your razor when you're shaving.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline tyb525

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2010, 09:36:24 PM »
I use a file 95% of the time. Only use grinder if it's rocked badly. My grinder is an old belsaw from who knows when, and it takes as long if not longer to do a chain than to file it by hand, and then it cuts just mediocre.

Plus, it's a lot more convenient to be able to file where you are cutting. Bringing a spare or two is great, but if you don't have to use them then that just saves time switching chains. I sharpen my chain when it no longer produces good chips, or requires more force (you can feel a dull chain). If you don't let it go too long and aren't sawing dirt, it only takes a few swipes of the file to get it just as sharp as before (I am also really careful not to touch the dirt either).

I use the blue Pferd filing guide: http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17049&catID=9956
and Pferd files: http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15000+DZ+732&catID=9947
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 10:07:54 PM »
I use a grinder 100 % of the time. I cut with a harvester and the time with that machine running is too valuable to be down sharpening chains. Plus when that machine dulls a chain, it needs to see a grinder.

But even when I do spend a day or two hand felling, I always have spare chains and swap rather than filing. Any time in the woods is too valuable to be sharpening chains.

And the other thing is that switching between filing and machine grinding is not a good thing. The filing results in a concave edge and machine grinding leaves a straight edge. When you go from grinding to filing, you have to re-establish that concave edge.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 08:46:56 AM »
 :D This is another subject that gets a lot of opinions . Some people are quite adept at hand filing while some are just plain inept .Doesn't seem to be any middle ground .

Takes me all of 5 minutes to dress out the standard 72 driver loop ,with vise or without  using a file .

Offline Rocky_J

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 09:09:17 AM »
I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions, but in my experience people who sharpen on a grinder and bring extra chains to the jobsite will cut until the chain is 'dull'. They have to get their money's worth out of each sharpening. A person who can touch up a chain in a couple minutes, at any time he feels like it, is more likely to stop as soon as the chain is 'not perfectly sharp'. My typical touch up is about two or three file strokes per tooth. A person who uses a grinder on everything would use my 'not sharp' chain for another hour or two before stopping to change it out. I don't want to work that hard because I'm a lazy SOB.

Takes me all of 5 minutes to dress out the standard 72 driver loop ,with vise or without using a file .
Al has such a sharp wit that he doesn't need a file, he can sharpen a chain just by staring at it hard.  :D

Offline northwoods1

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 09:19:36 AM »
With a chainsaw I just sharpen with a file. Normally every time I fill up with gas and oil, but I will sit down and run a couple strokes over each tooth as I am cutting sometimes. Takes about maybe a minute or two, and often times a guy needs a little break from cutting. Like Rocky says if you do it this way you should always be cutting with a perfectly sharp saw which is what I want. I kind of take the slow but steady approach to sawing :D ,,, with harvester chain that is a totally different thing, I have a Silvey sharpener which I sharpen all mine with, a rather expensive one. Worth every penny!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2010, 10:58:20 AM »
Takes me all of 5 minutes to dress out the standard 72 driver loop ,with vise or without using a file .
Al has such a sharp wit that he doesn't need a file, he can sharpen a chain just by staring at it hard.  :D
:D Well hmm ,that was a little faux pas on my part .I'm good just not that good . ;) I have however on more than one occasion threatened a saw to be recycled into so many beverage cans with limited success but never was able to convince a chain of anything .I think I'm going nutz, talking to a saw, pshaw.

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2010, 11:56:37 AM »
I carried a file in my pocket at all times, my saw had to be razor sharp at all time's. It takes 2 to3 minuets to put the edge back on a full chisel chain, on less you've hit frozen ground, barb wire, or a rock, then it takes a little longer to straighten it out .
A new chain out of the box is dull, or i should say don't cut to my specks.
All i've seen a grinder do is eat your chain up, a lot of guys don't know how to use a grinder, they don't realize when the chain turns blue they just ruined  it .

Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2010, 01:18:56 PM »
I carried a file in my pocket at all times, my saw had to be razor sharp at all time's. It takes 2 to3 minuets to put the edge back on a full chisel chain, on less you've hit frozen ground, barb wire, or a rock, then it takes a little longer to straighten it out .
A new chain out of the box is dull, or i should say don't cut to my specks.
All i've seen a grinder do is eat your chain up, a lot of guys don't know how to use a grinder, they don't realize when the chain turns blue they just ruined  it .

Well said, and sums up my thoughts and methods in a nutshell.  (along with the others who file by hand and want a sharper chain than comes new out of the box or from a grinder).
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2010, 03:49:34 PM »
In defense of those who prefer a grinder ,fact is a lot of the western fallers do grind .Most if not all use square ground chisel which is a beech to hand file although not impossible .

Fact is one of the gents came to one of the GTG's we had in Ohio and ran his grinder from a converter that  ran off his truck alternater .

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2010, 06:13:25 PM »
Grinding is for re-establishing the angles or taking off damage.  After grinding do a couple of correct file strokes. Don't think I can get better than this.  Only thing I'm wondering about is the depth gauge set when the chain starts to get worn.  The Carlton file-o-plate instructions imply that increased depth is appropriate for worn chain.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2010, 08:12:32 PM »
As the chain wears back towards the butt end of the cutter  ,the angle where the top plate meets the wood changes .The tooth has both side taper or relief as well as top taper .It you gauge across the tops of the now worn cutters and keep the factory specs of depth gauge depth it will do just fine .For 3/8" chain it's usually around 23 thou give or take a few .

BTW as a rule a chain will cut faster after it gets worn back to slightly ahead of the last rivet than when it was brand new .Kind of funny because to the casual observer it looks about worn out but in practicality it's getting about right for speed .Strange but true .

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2010, 09:42:57 PM »
Absolutely true, i always ran my rakers 40 thro
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Chain sharpening
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2010, 05:14:51 AM »
Whatever works .Far be it for me to tell anybody how to sharped a chain .I'll only add that 1/2" chipper is set to 35 thou .

This I have found though .Real deep depth gauges may appear to cut faster but it beats the pee out of the bar and operater . However everyone has their opinion on things . :)


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