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Author Topic: Timber frame / piece on piece  (Read 3322 times)

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Offline bic

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Timber frame / piece on piece
« on: May 01, 2011, 12:03:14 PM »
I am planning to build a camp 28x32 approx. and am presently interested in the above mentioned type. I will be using White pine for the job. What I am curious about is the joints between the posts and the pieces. I have read that there are different ways of joining the horizontal pieces to the posts, however I am a little nervous due to shrinkage. One method involved mortise and tenon, and another is cutting a groove in the post and piece and setting the pieces on top of the other. Am I missing something here, or is the shrinkage so minimal length wise that it is not a issue.
thanks ahead
 bic
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where there's a mill there's a way

Offline jander3

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 07:58:40 PM »
Tenon with slots in the post work fine.  There is no shrinkage in the length of a log.   You will need to account for settling 3/4" per foot of wall height on your window and door openings if you use green logs.

Offline laffs

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 08:09:58 PM »
wood does not shrink in length. But in width and thickness it does. vertical timbers are posts horizontal timbers are beams. sounds like you  need to do some reading before you go to building. I'm not insulting you, but you need some basic knowledge on timber framing or post and beam before you just toss something together.
at the top of the timber frame forum there are some intro posts you could start there. maybe pick up one of Jack Sobon's books either would be of benefit to you
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

Offline barbender

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 11:32:04 AM »
The Craft of Modular Post and Beam is the book you want, I can't remember the authors name.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline bic

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 08:36:44 PM »
laffs
No insult taken, actually am taking a 1 week TF course in the start of May that I'm really looking forward to. Perhaps, I did not explain my concern properly, I am leaning towards post and beam construction utilizing timber wall infill pieces. (horizontal pieces between the posts) I see where I said shrinkage length wise, typo...my concern is the shrinkage of the post where the infill pieces join the post by either mortise and tenon or by a groove in the post and infill piece spliced with a 3/4" plywood, I'm sure there are other methods.
 The logs I will be milling will have dried for approx 6 months.  I was planning on chinking between the logs, in a nutshell, would it be a bad thing to drill and peg, the mortise and tenon, to draw them tight to the post. or just caulk the "suspected" gap??

barbender, I believe the authors name is James Mitchell and you right on, it is a very informative book. In fact I am presently reading another... book by Mitchell called "Short log and timber building" this book is the reason I am leaning towards this method, the logs are going to have to be handbombed for the most part, as where I am building has limited access for machinery.

thanks again
bic
LT 28 Woodmizer
where there's a mill there's a way

Offline witterbound

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 12:01:59 PM »
I did not infill my timber frame, but instead used 2x6 stick construction on the outside of the frame.  However, my posts have shrunk and twisted, so that on some of them I have gaps between the posts and the drywall.  I would imagine you'll have that happen in an infill system, as well.

Offline barbender

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 12:48:32 PM »
Yep, James Mitchell- that's the one. I really like that book. I also read a little about that style of building in one of B. Allen Mackie's books. As far as the widthwise shrinkage of the posts, I think I would just let it shrink and then install backer rod and chink it. One idea Mackie had was to make the tenons on the bottom of your posts long so that they could just come down with the walls as they shrink. That would eliminate the need for batter boards at your top plate. I've never seen it done, interesting idea though. Good luck!
Too many irons in the fire

Offline highrail

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 03:31:00 PM »
this is the method that I am using in constructing my cabin.  This method requires precision in the length dimension, as the wall sections are pre-made and assembled at the site on the foundation.  As mentioned, a log will not shrink in length.  The other horizontal dimension is the post thickness.  Mitchell says that since flat siding removes (most of) the sapwood and the heartwood does not shrink, the post thickness will not change.

JimB

Offline bic

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 06:39:45 PM »
thanks gentlemen for your replys, witterbound, how long did you let your posts dry, and what kind of animal were they, pine, spruce?? I think thats what I'll do barbender, just hope it dosn't go to squirly on me, like witterbound stated. Highrail, did you use a wall jig for your logs??
Once again gentlemen thanks for your input.

bic
LT 28 Woodmizer
where there's a mill there's a way

Offline highrail

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 03:35:22 PM »
Yes, I use the jig described in Mitchell's book, with some slight mods to make the back scribe easier.  Basically a 2x6 frame with the vertical boards absolutely plum and the distance between them made exact by some trial and error depending on what method is used for the square cut on the logs.  I use the Alaska small mill with the v rail. 

Offline witterbound

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Re: Timber frame / piece on piece
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 03:53:24 PM »
southern yellow pine.  we cut the frame in the summer.  most of the timbers were cut in the spring. 


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