Bar Life?

[bendjoseph]

I have a Stihl MS391 With a Rollomatic E.  What is the life of this bar?  I have 13.5 hours on it now, and I have had to file it twice.  The rails are discolored from heat.  I have a pic but could not get it in the post.

[beenthere]

I'd be concerned about discoloration from heat. May be a dull chain and forcing the saw in the cut, and possible lack of bar oil. Not saying that is what happened, but comes first to mind.

The life of the bar should be years if cutting firewood at about 10 cords per year.

Any thoughts as to what may have caused the bar to overheat? And where on the bar do you see the discoloration?

[tyb525]

Your chainmay be too tight, too dull, and/or might not be getting enough oil.

[alderman]

Clean the bar groove and make sure all the oil passages are open.  You might pull the bar off, start it up and see if the pump is working.

[bendjoseph]

It has cut 7 cords, in 13 hours.  The heat is on the rails.  I am keeping the chains nice and sharp. The maple I have been cutting has been nasty.  Also about 5 of those 13 hours havebeen ripping.

[fuzzybear]

It has cut 7 cords, in 13 hours.  The heat is on the rails.  I am keeping the chains nice and sharp. The maple I have been cutting has been nasty.  Also about 5 of those 13 hours havebeen ripping.

I think you found the problem. Ripping is very hard on a bar, especially if there is not enough oil. When you are ripping you need twice as much oil as bucking. Turn your oiler up as high as it goes and maybe add an extra oiler to the end of the bar. When the chain is spinning a portion of the oil gets thrown off the end of the bar, you need more oil to make it to the bottom of the bar directly under the chain doing the cutting. Not enough oil there means metal to metal and lots of heat.
  There is no such thing as too much oil.
FB

[bendjoseph]

Ok, I did not turn up the oiler when I was ripping.  I kept the chain nice and sharp.

[Red 93 L1 #3383]

My oilers are always set at max, I just wish Stihl would squirt a little more oil out.

[bendjoseph]

I asked my dealer about the amount of oil I was getting.  I did not feel it was enough, they said it was fine.  I get one tank of oil to every two tanks of gas.  I am going to turn it up.

[Ianab]

3/4 tank of oil per tank of gas is more normal. Like the guys say, ripping produces a different sort of sawdust, and it seems to suck up the oil more than normal. It's either fine dust, or long noodles, but both act like blotting paper.

Turn up the oiler for sure, and make sure you are using a good bar oil. The main difference is the "tackifier" that makes it stick to the bar and chain. 

Ian

[rayrayrau]

Just a note, but all Stihl bars are dark for about 1/2 inch around the rails where they are hardened.  If you peeled the paint off a brand new never used Stihl bar it would be a darker, bluish color around the outside.

[bendjoseph]

I have been running Stihl chain oil.

[clww]

I had the same problem with my stock MS290 bar. I bought a Forrester bar and no more problems. Don't know why  ?
As others wrote, sharp chain, keep the oil flow holes cleared and flip the bar over every 3rd take of gas. Another thing is on that particular saw, I could not adjust the auto oiler, which I do not like. My 1985 Stihl 028 uses much more oil than my 2 year old saw, and a lot fewer bars, too!

[HolmenTree]

Just a note, but all Stihl bars are dark for about 1/2 inch around the rails where they are hardened.  If you peeled the paint off a brand new never used Stihl bar it would be a darker, bluish color around the outside.

Only the 3 piece laminated Stihl bars like the "E" bendjoesph here is using are hardened discolored rails under the paint. But take the Stihl "ES" machined solid body bar with the replaceable nose does not have this.
I would suggest to bendjoesph to "noodle rip" your firewood blocks. [cutting the block through the side not down through the ends]Alot easier on the b/c and faster with those long stringy chips then making sawdust what you have been doing.
You just need a slightly longer b/c then your firewood blocks

[Al_Smith]

If you hold that bar at about a 45 degree angle when ripping it does better .Cross grain it just pulls sawdust and beats the dickens out of the cutting system .

You get the angle right you can rip right through the stuff and never clog the bar .

[HolmenTree]

If you hold that bar at about a 45 degree angle when ripping it does better .Cross grain it just pulls sawdust and beats the dickens out of the cutting system .

You get the angle right you can rip right through the stuff and never clog the bar .

Thats right Al, but if you want the best speed pull off the sprocket cover, shim up the bar nuts with washers to keep the bar / chain tight and rip the block through the side flat to the bar.
But now that I'm thinking about bendjoseph's saw its only a MS391.......I'm thinking about my 066 :D

[Al_Smith]

Well yeah but most people aren't going to pull the chain guard off to make a ripper .

[HolmenTree]

Well yeah but most people aren't going to pull the chain guard off to make a ripper .

If I have 2 cords or more of firewood rounds in front of me to split.... I would.

[montreal]

Holmentree,thats a good ideawith losing the sprocket cover! I got thrown on the "flat to the bar'bit though,can u please describe that for a slowie,ta 

[Al_Smith]

Running parellell to the round .It pulls big old noodles but cuts fast .

Problem being those stringy noodles will clog the clutch cover up with chips in short order .

Now way back when in the gear drive era many saws had no clutch cover but they didn't spin the chain at 65 miles per hour either .With a derail under certain conditions with no clutch cover you could get smacked with a chain,not good at all .

[montreal]

thanks Al,if a bloke was going to do a lot of ripping do u think it would help/pay to modify a[spare]clutch cover,ie cut it up to give a little more room but hopefully still slow a flying chain down?.Im wanting to rip a big mob of fence posts about 7ft long ripped on the quarter grain & split with wedges &crowbar on the "backing off" or radial?? grain,ive done a bit of splitting,but am fairly green in the ripping dept.The timber being seasoned eaculyptus[pretty hard going].Being in the market for a new[or used}mid size sawat the moment i was wondering whether i should be looking at a slower running older saw,mythinking being the slower revs would be easier on motor & possibly chain& bar,am i on the right track or not even close?id much appreciate any knowledge u "rippers"have gained,Mon

[HolmenTree]

Fellows I split many cords of firewood rounds with my Stihl 066 and no clutch cover. Never had a problem with danger of a derailed or thrown chain. I don't recommend limbing trees with no cover ,but in a controlled position low to the ground I see no danger.
Just don't run a spur type drive sprocket which no one does these days on the larger saws. Spurs can throw a chain a little harder,

[montreal]

ok Holmentree,i guess it would pay to keep aclose watch on the chain tension??,i just got a stihl 440 today[ebay]do ureckon its up for the work i described if i nurse it along,more oil needed?? most logs would be about say 24''& id only be cutting 12"[deep] of  that each rip with a sharp skip tooth chn,cheers Mon

[Al_Smith]

On this oiling issue some times the Stihl bars have a rather small oil hole in the bar .Depends on the bar but increasing the size helps .Kind of hard on drill bits though .A little grinding point on a Dremel works real well .

[montreal]

thats handy to know,do u know where the rollamatic ES fits in there,whats the max diam u would go,cheers

[Al_Smith]

I couldn't tell the difference between a rollamatic or a Rolex  :D .

What I'm trying to say is I don't pay attention to the trade names they hand on things .

[montreal]

rolamatic dosnt mean much to me either, i was more trying to figure how big u can rebore a oil hole before it becomes to big,

[Al_Smith]

I don't know ,never really measured ,1/8" maybe .I've got some oldies that have 1/4" holes in them but that was when they made saws that put oodles of oil on the bar before somebody got the bright idea that wasn't the thing to do .

[montreal]

now thats real interesting Al,i spose in a lot of easy cutting timber it dosnt really matter either way,im not sure about your area but im fairly sure the timber in germany where im guessing they desighn & test some of these small holed stihl bars is nothing like some of the stuff we stick them into in Aust.There is a fair bit of timber over here that once cured is beyond the scope of a normal B&Chain to deal with, i only found out the other day u can get tungsten?? tipped chains or something along those lines,have u had any experience with them?im thinking either way its got to help a lot  if youve got  a big mob of oil  doing its thing!?.Do u think rev speed would play much of a part here too??

[Al_Smith]

Oh I doubt seriously if the wood in Germany is much different than the wood in Ohio .

The reason more modern chainsaws don't have the oil output of older saws is more related to ecolgical issues imposed by The EPA and other organizations .

Now usually most Stihls will supply an ample amount of oil for the rated bar length a certain model of saw is designed to handle .However once you reach the longer limits of those bars they lack a little in the oil department .

Now I don't subscibe to the theory that an over oiling saw presents an ecologocal issue but some with a lot more influence with govermental bodies than I do .So all I can do is complain about it as if that does a lot of good .

[Al_Smith]

Now on that carbide chain a little tip .That stuff is designed for rescue saws .Firefighters use that stuff to cut through shingle or sheet metal roofs .The cost is prohibitive you use for normal wood cutting and more so it's not all that fast either .On wood if the chain gets dull you just refile it which seems for some reason a subject that seems hard to grasp for some .

What I ought to do is start having monthly one day seminars at the Al Smith school of chainsawoligy on the subject of chain maintainence .Enrollment fee will be 100 dollars and a case of Budweiser,supply you own files . 8)

[montreal]

sounds like the carbide isnt really set up for wood at all from your description,iwas just curious cause ive got a set of cattle yards to make out of some very steeldust impregnated redgum railway sleepers{ties?]& it dosnt matter how sharp youve got your chain your lucky to go five min before sharpen uptime comes around again.your prob thinking why bother with the dirty sons of guns,but i can get them for the right money & once youve got them in place theyre as good or better than anything else available & not far off steel railway line for lasting ability,[similar to cut too though!!] Even on timber i consider pretty easy going i NEVER go more than 1 tankfull without getting the file out,after 24 years experience working on cattle stations& using a saw here & there along the way i definitely dont consider myself a pro & as youve read ive got alot more that im keen to learn but when we get to the sharpening section of your new chainsawology school I want to have a sharpout with u,every time i get as sharp or sharper than u,u handover one of those Bud cartons!   

[Al_Smith]

 :D You can have all the cartons you want. I'll keep the beer .

Seriously  that carbide chain costs like 3-400 bucks a loop .Then a fortune to get it reground or retoothed if it tosses an insert .Cutting ties is not a problem, cutting ballast rock is .

On this subject of "anti kickback bar " the only ones I ever saw that claimed that was of Oregon design maybe 25 years ago .Odd looking gizmo it was .Rounded bottom tip that transitioned straight on the upper side .You could only install it it one direction ,could not be flipped .Absoultely could not use it for a bore cut and a lousy up hand cutter .Then also were the Homelite bars used on small displacement consumer saws .Had a guard over the end .Could not be bored with at all ,no open tip .Both of these designs are long since gone as far as I know .

[Yoopersaw]

I always set mine to have a dab of oil left when I run out of gas.  It's cheap insurance.

[Al_Smith]

You're better off to shut the thing off before you run out of gas .

[tyb525]

they do run lean when they run out of gas, so every time you run out of gas, you're running lean, and that's hard on a saw.

[lumberjack48]

I used Rock Drill oil back in the 60's, it was like honey the best bar oil i ever used, i'll bet it would work for ripping, thought I'd throw that at you rippers.

I had a 038 Mag II for a bucking up saw, it ran out of gas 8 to 12 times a working day never hurt it. I had that saw for 8 years, sold it for 200 after i got hurt.

The old 028's, 034's, 038's and 044's were a tough line, and i was a Jon'ie and Husky man, there good saw but had more issues then the Stihl.

[Al_Smith]

I usually shut them down about the first hiccup .Buckings one thing but I learned a long time ago to never start a felling cut without a full tank .Nothing like having  the dang saw die when you have about 2 inchs of hinge left and big wind blows up all the sudden .Run rabbit run . :D

[Yoopersaw]

Thanks for the tips on running out of gas.

[montreal]

Lumberjack that rock drill oil sounds pretty handy,ill mention that to some mates in the mining game,they might be able to get me a sample,it might help in some of this tough stuff im wanting to work on.i was pretty interested in getting a 038 mag,i thought they might of suited some of the work i do with theyre slower revs??but ended up going with a 440mag which still is on its wayfrom the u.s.Does anyone have anopinion whether a slower revving saw is going to blunt-heat a chain much less in real hard {dirty]wood compared to a faster revving saw??i havnt really compared differences yet but have a hunch it may??

[Al_Smith]

Don't get fooled by an 038 mag supposedly being a slow reving saw .Some may say that but they've obviously never seen one in good tune . 8)

Besides that if the chain is sharp and it's getting plenty of oil that 1500 rpm difference won't make any difference on the chain .I might add with a little work an 038 Mag will out rev an 044 but that's another subject all together . ;)

[montreal]

thats good to know u dont reckon1500 revs is going to make any dif to b&c life,would it be likely to make any dif to engine life during extended periods of ripping,was that u Al that posted somewhere on this forum what a good longlasting  saw the 038 mag was-is?,how do u rate the ms 440 alongside the 038mag?? as an allround using saw?             

[Al_Smith]

Well yes they are both good saws for that matter .I prefer the 038 mag given the choice but that's just a personal preference .

[montreal]

well thanks for the tips Al & Lumberjack,i hope Bendjoseph got as much info as i did,cheers Mon