The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems






Author Topic: Goldmine or crap?  (Read 3137 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Engineer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1616
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Shaftsbury, VT
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Goldmine or crap?
« on: February 05, 2004, 03:33:35 PM »
I am friends with a local excavator who does occasional logging jobs during winter months.  He'd been telling me about the lot he just cut, 95 trees, red oak and hard maple, most of them 24" and larger DBH.  He found a local buyer to take the nice stuff, but he said the rest would go to the local pulp mill.  I asked him what he had, said it was mostly small heart hard maple that might have too many knots, or short logs, or maybe a long log with a crook or large branch.  Said he could get 90 a cord at the pulp mill.

Now, I need sugar maple for flooring and cabinet work, and I can cut small stuff.  I can get a whole log truck full (he said one truck hold 13 cords, whatever that is) for the price of the pulp or slightly less - say $1000.  I'm trying to determine if this is a goldmine or just a truckload of firewood.  Either way it's probably a bargain, but I don't need firewood.  I figure if that 13 cords translates to more than 2000 board feet, I have a deal.  Any opinions one way or the other, or should I just let it go?  He said a lot of the logs are 20" and up, and maybe 8' long, but might have one big branch on them; the buyer rejected them, or anything with heart larger than 1/3 of the log diameter.

Guy also said the buyer's paying $15 a board foot for curly maple.  Un-frickin-believeable.


Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2004, 04:10:58 PM »
You take a look at it and decide. Hard for anyone else to decide for you, without looking at the logs he is talking about. You should be able to translate the log faces into lumber, and make a decision as to the length of material in flooring boards that you could get. You likely can't put a figure on the board footage that you could saw, but you can see good and bad in logs. Go from there. And good luck. Sounds like you should give it a go and be the wiser for the experience. Discovery is half the fun (or is it more than that?).
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Captain

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Norton, MA, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2004, 04:38:58 PM »
Most loads of reject logs like that I buy for less than pulp or firewood as my logger is closer to me.  He discounts it accordingly.

Captain

Offline Kevin_H.

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1413
  • Location: Tilden, IL
  • Gender: Male
  • my two boys
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2004, 04:45:24 PM »
If I am reading this right, You are paying $1000 for 2000 Board feet or 50 cents a board foot for logs that some one else didn't want, because they had too many defects.

I dont know what sugar maple goes for but I would think that for 50 cents a board foot you should be able to get much better looking logs.
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline Buzz-sawyer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2210
  • Location: Brighton (S/W) Illinois
  • Gender: Male
  • To see it is to saw it....
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2004, 04:58:39 PM »
ya know, it really depends A LOT on what your doin...and what you can get out of the wood. It can be tremendously profitable....if you know the extra time and effort You are willing to put in can translate into$$$
You have to be confident in the content and the market
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Offline Fla._Deadheader

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10366
  • Age: 76
  • Gender: Male
  • Linda Vista, Costa Rica
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2004, 05:11:56 PM »
  Maybe I'm way off here, but, according to another thread, 1 cord of wood = 500-1000 bd/ft???, according to who you ask.

 If so, 500 bd/ft @ 13 cords = 6500 bdft. If half that = lumber, that is STILL 3250 bd/ft ???

 Can't believe that you couldn't make $$$ off that.

 I would look at the logs first, and then decide.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline J_T

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Dukedom Tn
  • Gender: Male
  • Some of anything beats all of nothing Even in Dukedom Tn
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2004, 05:16:56 PM »
Don't know what kind of maple we got here but sawed is .45bf 240 to 280 mbf cross tye size Doyel. I would want to put my old Doyel rule to it and figure from thare convert it to somepthing I understand
Jim Holloway

Offline woodmills1

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5184
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Hudson, NH
  • Gender: Male
  • the truth shall set you free
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2004, 05:45:30 PM »
I can buy top quality hardwood delivered for between 50 and 85 cents a foot.  Pallet and tie quality I can get trucked in all day long for 20-40 cents per.  Quality pine is 30 cents lower is 15.  Junk mix I pay 100 dollars a log truck load, around 3000 bd ft.  Around here 13 cord is a long log truck and a pup trailer.  Firewood loads on a log truck will give around 8 cord, though they will call it and charge you for ten, and that costs 350 to 400.  It might be interesting to ask the contractor what he wants If you haul it away then spend $200 to hire a log truck to do it for you.  One hint I have given here before is to deal with all of these people in person and not on the phone untill you establish some relationship.

If you can find a log truck that will make a run to southern Nh I will cut you 3000 bd ft of red oak and birch logs at around 80 cents to a dollar that I bet you can get some veneer logs out of.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline dewwood

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 658
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Angola, Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • Makin sawdust
    • Share Post
    • Powers Hardwoods
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2004, 06:23:21 PM »
I think I would defer to the wisdom of the professional log buyer, he looked at the logs and felt they were not worth putting money into.  Take the same amount of money you would spend on this pallet wood and buy some good quality grade logs and you will end up with just as much usable lumber and it will be of a higher quality.  Just my thoughts.

Dewey
Selling hardwood lumber, doing some sawing and drying, growing the next generation of trees and enjoying the kids and grandkids.

Offline Texas Ranger

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 7034
  • Age: 79
  • Location: Livingston, Texas, God's Country
  • Gender: Male
  • Texan, by God and by choice.
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2004, 07:43:30 PM »
Fla Deadhead, around here, pulp wood runs 2.6 tons to the cord, sawlogs, 8 tons per thousand bd ft.  That is in pine, but figure the ratio should be close in hardwood, cause they use both woods at the same rate.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Offline ARKANSAWYER

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Wamego, Kansas
  • Gender: Male
  • Poor white Southern trash
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2004, 08:00:38 PM »
   I go and get walnut after the big boys harvest and take the saw logs.  I get the hollows, tops and wire infested logs for $400 a tractor trailer load.  Most loads produce 3,000 bdft of lumber and some very nice crotch wood per load.  Most of the time I can sell the lumber green off of the mill for $0.50 a bdft.  It is low grade but does well for small crafts and trophies.  Wonder if I am making any money? ???
 If these rejected logs have any 12 inchers in it then it is worth sawing up.  Some folks like wood with knots.  Flooring cuts out the bad spots and looks like all FAS.   I would keep some of the larger maples for about 18 months and spalt it and really make some money off of their low grade junk.  Most hard wood 3C will bring $0.50 abdft and I would venture that there would be some where between 3 to 4 mbdft in a load.  If I had the coin in the purse then try it all you could do is break even or have a 2 year supply of fire wood. ::)
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Offline Ron Wenrich

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13960
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Jonestown, PA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2004, 08:03:51 PM »
That sounds like a high price for pulpwood.  I don't think he's getting that price.

If these are second cut logs, which it sounds like, then they are sawlogs.  The veneer has been bled off and he pulps the rest, due to not knowing what the other market values are.

Take a look at the logs.  Looking is free.  If they look like something you can use, fine.  The price seems a little high for logs.  Tie logs would only fetch about $700, and its just real hard to believe that the pulp markets are higher.

We get about 3500 bf out of a trailerload of logs.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10366
  • Age: 76
  • Gender: Male
  • Linda Vista, Costa Rica
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2004, 03:49:45 AM »
  Friar Don, Here is the thread I was referrin to. Good??? No good???
 I finally membered to go to the calsitraters and there was no conversion, so, I defer to my expert witness ::) ;D :D :D

Quote
Quote
JT this my help Volume Conversion Factors
Arkansas Severance Tax Laws Use the Following Conversion Factors
Sawlogs:    Pine - 8 Tons = 1 Thousand Board Feet (MBF) Doyle Log Rule

                Hardwood - 8 Tons = 1 MBF Doyle Log Rule



Pulpwood:  Pine - 2.5 Tons = 1 Cord

                Hardwood - 3.0 Tons = 1 Cord



These conversion factors are averages. For example, 1 MBF of large pine sawtimber can weigh 5.9 tons while 1 MBF of small pine sawtimber can weigh 9.8 tons. Hardwood log weights vary between different species.



Other Conversion Factors Used
MBF- International-1/4 x 0.74 = MBF Doyle Log Rule

MBF - Scribner Log Rule X 0.78 = MBF Doyle Log Rule

MBF - USFS Scribner Log Rule X 0.814 = MBF Doyle Log Rule


All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Engineer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1616
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Shaftsbury, VT
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2004, 05:11:49 AM »
I want to thank everyone for their replies.  To clear things up a bit, I'm not buying for market.  I need 3000-4000 board feet of whatever I can get my hands on, preferably hard maple, ash or cherry, in order to get the flooring and cabinetry for my house.  I'm sure not interested in buying KD hardwood from somebody else for retail when I can cut my own.  

The log truck holds 13 cords.  Yes, it's a monster; I know the truck.  With the conversion, I suspect I might get 2500-3000 board feet or better out of a load.  The veneer buyer took sawlogs and veneer, so this stuff is about one step above firewood.  However, for what it will cost me, I think it will be a deal.  It's hard to get decent sugar maple as a homeowner when the log buyers are paying a buck a foot average for logs.

As far as sawlogs or veneer logs, I don't need them.  I have no use for 16'-14'-12' logs or the pieces that come out of them.  I'll be thrilled to get 6' logs that are clear and scale 150 board feet.  I don't need small heart, I like the color.  Basically, I'm a scavenger.  If I can avoid paying tens of thousands of dollars to buy flooring and cabinets, but instead spend five grand on the raw logs, machinery and kiln-drying services to make it myself, I'm ahead of the game.

Offline ARKANSAWYER

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Wamego, Kansas
  • Gender: Male
  • Poor white Southern trash
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2004, 07:45:56 AM »
  Is you buying the logs or not? ???
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Offline Engineer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1616
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Shaftsbury, VT
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Goldmine or crap?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2004, 08:02:28 AM »
I is buying the logs.  If at least half turns out to be decent lumber, I'm all set.  If not - into the firewood pile.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Anybody got this crap ???

Started by Burlkraft on Health and Safety

12 Replies
2611 Views
Last post October 09, 2008, 12:10:08 PM
by DR_Buck
xx
Ah Crap!

Started by Raider Bill on Health and Safety

25 Replies
4778 Views
Last post November 04, 2009, 01:14:26 PM
by Burlkraft
xx
OH CRAP - out of time.....

Started by Engineer on Timber Framing/Log construction

11 Replies
2775 Views
Last post April 17, 2005, 01:23:29 PM
by etat
xx
Crap in the woods

Started by Jeff on Forestry and Logging

23 Replies
6567 Views
Last post June 11, 2015, 05:02:16 PM
by Okrafarmer
 


Powered by EzPortal