How many full time clearing saw operator ( pre-commercial thinning )?

lacouleurde · March 31, 2012, 10:49:36 PM

I'm from New-Brunswick too, and I heard that they will only up the rate on tree planting, not on thinning. So, will see. I'm just excited to start, it will be soon, not alot of snow left. I have just recently modified my Stihl FS 480 so I can't wait to start it. And if any of you tried the new Stihl FS 460 c-em or 490 c-em or 560 c-em, please reviews it for me, because maybe I will buy an extra brushsaw this years, so I'm wondering if I should go for the 480 or the 460.

SwampDonkey · April 01, 2012, 06:13:59 AM

I'll be starting out with my trusty FS550 for the 6th season. 8)

Ryan D · April 01, 2012, 06:37:04 AM

I bought a Husqvarna FX555 to try this year. So far I like it a lot. It has a really good power to weight ratio. It's been a nightmare to try and get a new stihl this year. Everyone has them all bought up because of the model change.

SwampDonkey · April 01, 2012, 07:28:39 AM

Should be easy enough to get a Stihl up this way because most of the local guys buy Husqvarna because the dealer understands that a saw needs to be fixed today and not 10 days from now like for back yard work. ;)

lacouleurde · April 01, 2012, 06:05:39 PM

SwampDonkey, Have you ever try a Stihl 480? For me the light weight is the most important things. Do you know a brushsaw who weight under 8 KG?

SwampDonkey · April 01, 2012, 06:12:55 PM

I like the heavier Stihl, when I hit the throttle on a stump, she's going down. ;D

Ken · April 01, 2012, 06:42:05 PM

I too have to agree with needing the extra horsepower to be efficient. Working in central NB requires us to spend a fair bit of the season thinning hardwood stands. I've had guys work for me who had previously worked in strictly small diameter softwood stands in northern New Brunswick and the Gaspe region of Quebec. They were going to show the rest of us with big saws how they could do the work easier with smaller saws. Let's just say it worked okay when we were doing small softwood but when we hit the bigger stems and hardwood clumps their saws fell apart very quickly. Nothing changes the game like a hardwood clump with 30 or 40 stems leaning every which way!

Although I don't spend a lot of time strapped into the thinning saw harness my 550 Stihl that I bought new several years go still starts on 2-3 pulls every time and works when I want it to. Great saw. It will be interesting to see how the new models hold up.

SwampDonkey · April 01, 2012, 09:19:23 PM

They also cut a lot of popple up there. Some sections of highway up above St Leonard all you see is popple thinned. And up around Bathurst that's about all there is to, it's been burnt and cut so much that popple is all that will grow there in places. I know I've drove along the coast 4-lane there and it's hard to find much else. Same with down near Moncton only done there it's swampy popple. You go between Perth and Nackawick and it's thick softwood and thick hardwood on any of the good growing ground. That's the best ground to grow trees on anyway. We thinned on Blue Bell Mountain (my crew) and that was thick, but also like thinning on a cow bell. Same with another lot we did in Johnville. I never thin those popple stands, money better spend on other ground. ;)

SwampDonkey · April 14, 2012, 07:40:21 PM

Well, I had to haul out the brush saw today to mow down some dogwoods and cherry bushes in the back yard. Trimmed around some of my planted yellow birch. I really don't want to thin around them too much yet until they get taller. Some are close to 10 feet now. But I had a patch of dogwoods that was getting a little knarly that had to be tamed. We could begin cutting any time now. The roads are still wet I believe. But next week it's suppose to be summer temps again in the 70's.

lacouleurde · May 10, 2012, 07:59:13 PM

I have 4 week completed, and so far its going great. Great wether and for now not alot of raining like last year. I bought another Stihl FS 480. But I heard that the new FS 460 and 560 are great too, so I hope I didnt make a mistake buying a 480. How about you swampdonkey and everybody else?

redprospector · May 10, 2012, 10:54:34 PM

Well ya learn something new every day.
I was reading this thread and didn't recognize any of the saw's you guy's are using. So I googled the FS 480, I spent a while watching video's on youtube. Way different than what I do.
I'm a "thinning contractor" mostly for fire prevention in a mixed connifer forest, on private land. We take out trees from saplings up to 24" DBH. So what we do is apples & oranges, but this is very interesting to me.
I have the same problem finding people that are willing to work this hard.
For saw's that we use, it depends on what we're in. For lop & scatter (up to 9" DBH) I've got MS261's, for anything bigger than that we go to the MS460's.

Andy

ashes · May 11, 2012, 01:22:33 AM

Well I thought I would share my experience.

(which isn't much)......I was living in Tahoe at Fallenleaf Campground as a camphost/plumber/whatever for a couple of summers. For two strait summers we had to cut marked trees for the FS. They were mostly all standing dead pines. I got pretty decent at falling trees and sharpening chains those summers. The camp managers were not FS, but it was a FS campground. Being that the logs were not ours to sell and we were instructed to buck the trees and give it away as firewood. Really kind of rediculous because we just had a lot o wood on the ground in rounds, and the ave DBH was prolly 15-20" strait ponderosa and jeffrey. Some of it was huge. We weren't supposed to cut those (although we did quite a bit), and we actually hired out some of the really big ones.

I had a really scary moment out there one day. I didin't give enough thought on a big wolf tree in a meadow. I wouldn't have tangled with this one other than there was nothing for it to fall on, and I wanted to try and cut a bigger tree. Got it halfway cut and realized I was prolly over my head because the tree was way bigger than my saw and I hadn't done the prettiest job cutting a wedge. I was in a public campground and shouldn't have been on the tree to begin with so I had to get it down at this point so I got the tree to fall. It fell exacly were it was intended to but because it was a wolf it fell onto a few of the large branches and stuck strait into the ground. Now I was in a pickle because the tree was about 10 feet off the ground and there was not way to safely cut those limbs that were supporting it.

We had a F250 truck with tool bed so I just put it in reverse and leaned into it.............then a little harder and that tree fell over.

That cured me of that real quick and taught me a lot I wouldn't have learned from my boss. Mostly don't do really dumb stuff you aren't trained to do.

ashes · May 11, 2012, 01:23:24 AM

I guess my point was that was a non comercial thin ;D

Tramp Bushler · May 11, 2012, 03:45:26 AM

You guys must be on pretty flat ground . So as I understand at 500$ a hecteacre and a hecteacre is 2.2 acres that makes it 227$ an acre . So it seems a guy can average 300$ a day . How many hours a day do you guys put on the saw ? We really need pics . We mainly logged by clearcut on the coast and the forest regens fast . 20 year Sitka Spruce and Western Hemlpch will typically be 20 ' tall 20 years after logging . Good drainage can be close to double
that .
The problem is it tends to grow back THICK in alot of spots . And whete the conifers arn't thick the blue berry and huckle berty brush is . 20-30,000 stems per acre . . Typical spacing is 15-18' so around 300 dominant crop trees left standing .

Tramp Bushler · May 11, 2012, 03:47:22 AM

Western Hemlock

Huckle berry.

We use chain saws to thin with . I prefer the little screamers . The 242 Husky was my favorite and the 026/260 Stihl was runner up . Now I would pick the 346 Husky . Most every one ran 20" bars . Stumps had to be 12" or less and avg. dia was around 2" . Almost all thinning is done remote and the thinning contractor has to live in a camp .most of the time .

SwampDonkey · May 11, 2012, 05:16:41 AM

Rates here vary, on private you have one rate fits all on crown they go by density and the rates are higher.

lacouleurde, I have been measuring ground only so far except cutting dogwoods in the back yard. I've got 500 ha on crown to mark out besides a few ha on private. ;D

Tramp Bushler · May 11, 2012, 05:24:14 AM

Most of the thinning up here is competitve bid.
Most of the thinners I know wear their gas + oil on a belt or harness . At least half a days worth .

SwampDonkey · May 11, 2012, 05:45:11 AM

We work on individual strips on the block. Gas is carried by 2 gallon jug, water jug to and back pack with tools. Saws go 50 min to 1-1/2 hr depending on the ground and the saw. Most all blocks are road side. Strips can get near 600 m deep, but most around 300 m deep and 40 m wide. I go 50 m wide on strips under 200 m deep. If we wait longer than 14 years the trees are way too big to use brush saws in. They don't bid on thinning here, they just weed out the bad ones. ;)

lacouleurde · February 18, 2013, 05:08:19 PM

Hi Again SWAMPDONKY! I have some question about thinning and taxes in n-b canada. Because I considor to be self employed this season ( because of the recent EI changes that really annoye me), and I want to know how much money I will have to pay in taxes. So, for example , if i make 28000$ and have 3000$ in expenses, how much will i have to pay?

ps: Can I just dont pay taxes at all, and just take the check and cash it? is this dangerous?

SwampDonkey · February 18, 2013, 06:12:02 PM

You have to pay tax on the net earnings. That's the cheque minus all the costs of doing the thinning. Like saw, insurance, vehicle, gas. You still have to pay tax when your self employed because you probably never remitted tax every quarter.

I don't know why you went self employed, because everyone down here didn't. Their still getting the insurance cheques just the same as they ever did.

lacouleurde · March 15, 2013, 02:14:49 PM

Hi Again SwampDonkey. I just want to ask you if you have tried or heard about the new stihl 560 or 460. Because I want to know if it run good.

SwampDonkey · March 15, 2013, 02:29:16 PM

A couple of fellas last summer had two of the new 560's, heard no complaints. There may be more 560's on the crew this season. I still use my 550 and talked to the local shop and they said they can still get them and parts, so I'm sticking with it as long as possible because of spare parts from other saws. ;D

GATreeGrower · March 19, 2013, 01:57:36 PM

I just got a Husky 336 and I love it. Works great for what I need, cutting scrub trees and bushes, and thinning young pine. Wish it had come with a better harness though.

GATreeGrower · March 19, 2013, 01:58:04 PM

How much does somebody make clearing full time?

SwampDonkey · March 19, 2013, 02:16:12 PM

Top cutters make $800-$1000 per week. If we hit into some real cream we can make $1200 or more. The drag your heals types might make $500-$650 a week. Rates used to be density based, but last year they started a one rate deal for natural. And it seems the rate dropped by $30/ha on the average stuff and $100/ha on the real thick stuff. They keep messing with the rates and there won't be anyone thinning. The rates need to go the other direction.