Forest sustainable or not ?

[SJM66]

 We currently have about 150 acres of woods on our 231 acre farm in New Haven,NY. We have been cutting around 100 fc a year and it seems like we are not coming close to keeping up. Most of the woods,except about 30 acres, is grown up since the 1930's to the youngest being let go in the 70's. Trying to thin the trees so they will start growing again. Have logged some areas but have no plans to do that again unless the trees need to come down. Have talked to foresters in past but it it a double edged sword, as I have learned, as our area is like the wild west of timber theft and the less people in your woods the better.Most local folks get high graded hard and have no idea the actual quality of the cherry and hard maple in the woods in this area. My question is however, will just cutting the cull trees and timber stand improvement keep me cutting year after year or am I missing something  We also can cut 40 full cord out of my sister in laws 175 acres of nice, more mature, woods and not affect her Forest Management Plan that was done by a state forester. It seems to me that is not enough from that acreage and he is setting it up for one huge cut at some point and I don't think she will like the result . Barring the "talk to the forester standard answer" any opinions? Thanks.

[MHineman]

  I don't what your ground is like there, but our trees grow pretty fast in central Indiana.  I've always heard that after the woods is well established in typically 20 years, you can cut a full cord per acre of culls or tops from harvested trees forever.  And often you'll never catch up.
  The only times you seem to not be able to get that much is if you have a lot of old HUGE pasture trees that each take 1/4 acre or more and never cut those down.  Eventually they die and fall down, but there often is not even a lot of firewood by then.
  Harvest mature trees and cull out poor form or low value species and you'll have more than enough firewood.

[Ron Wenrich]

Define your objectives.  If you're cutting out the culls, that may be enough, but it might not.  You need to have some sort of inventory to figure out what you have.  You also have to figure out what sort of management scheme you want.  Even-aged or uneven-aged. 

An even-aged scheme sounds like what your sister-in-law is working towards.  That usually ends in a lot of large trees that will eventually be clearcut to start your next forest. 

An uneven-aged scheme is where you manage for all ages.  This might include putting in small clearcuts at various points throughout the forest.  That would be primarily in areas where there are large, overmature trees, or in areas where the timber quality is poor due to form or species composition.  Other targeted areas might be places you want for wildlife management.

A forest inventory will be able to tell you what you have, where its at, and how much you are growing.  It doesn't sound like you trust loggers or foresters all that much.  That's OK if you can find a way to harvest some timber from time to time.  Get a good consultant to write up a plan, and let him know that you're not interested in timber harvest at this time.  Just tell him the markets aren't that good to warrant a cut.  A consulting forester should be glad to do this type of work.  Procurement foresters are interested in buying timber for mills, and would not be interested in this work.  Most loggers are not foresters.

Sustainable would be where you cut your growth and keep a healthy baseline.  Not seeing your woodlot, I would have a hunch that 100 fc is not enough.  But, I don't have the statistics. 

[MHineman]

  Do you have a Classified Forest program like we do in Indiana?  We have about 35 acres in that program at my dad's farm.  The DNR Forester for the region comes out and writes up a plan for your woods based on questions he asks you about what you want from the woods.
  He comes back every 5 years to review the woods and the plan with you, and will update it if you have changes. 
  You can call him whenever (within reason) you want his input about managing the trees.  He is not allowed to put a value on timber, but can help you decide which species are best for your goals and specifc land types.
  The best part is his help is free.  The other item that may be even better is the land in the program is only assessed for property taxes at $1 per acre.  The land can not have permanent buildings or be grazed by livestock.
  If you need more specific information such as which tree to cut and which to leave, you should hire a Consulting Forester.  Consulting Foresters get paid a fee and do not buy the trees.  Instead they can write up the timber sale and conduct the sale, or simply mark the trees for you to cut as you have time.  Many also do TSI and tree planting.

[WDH]

I agree with Ron.  You have to know what you have (need an inventory) and you have to have clear objectives so that you can evaluate alternatives.

[barbender]

Yep, like the others said, hire a consulting forester or see if there is anyone available from the DNR that would assess your wood for a fee that is not based on production. A friend of mine that logged down in Georgia got really sick of dealing with foresters down there, they were all payed on commision by the ton, and many of them only cared about getting the most tons out so they got a good paycheck from the job.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto to what Ron W. and WDH said.

[lumberjack48]

SJM66  you've probably read all this stuff, thought I'd post it anyway. Be care full with your property and your sisters to, seems like its all run on greed.

http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-101.html