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Author Topic: On site milling for a future timber frame  (Read 6821 times)

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Offline T Welsh

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 09:05:45 PM »
Jim, Was there a reason to cut the log with the crotch still on it? Seems that there was a 10' clear log before the crotch, Why not just cut the crotch off and go with a clear log. Tim

Offline LaserZX

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 09:13:03 PM »
Jim

Could you kindly put a pic up (if you can find the time) or send me of the saw dust shoot on  your WM   I am guessing that is a 45 degree
PVC?   How did you hook your 5 gal bucket.

thank you in advance

I builder remodeler company project manager called me a couple of weeks ago, asking me to come back to a job site where I milled up some pine logs for sheathing for repairing a barn again.

I went over there and did a log inventory as best I could of their pile of red pine and white pine logs.

There were more in the pile that I couldn't measure being that the shorter ones were on the bottom and the long ones on top.

They had some 18', 20' and 22' red pine logs on top.

I asked what were they going to need for lumber out of the pile. He told me all boards.

I explained to him that I couldn't cut boards, on site, out of 22' logs as the mill is only 16' long. And that we'd have to cut these long logs in half or so, in order to make them shorter to mill on site and get some nice boards out of them.

The timber framer saw the log pile and as they are going to frame up an addition or porch or both for the old farm house they decided that I should mill these into timbers for the future timber frame.

The provided me with a stock list. It included 7x7 post, 7x7 girts, 7x7 plates, 7x9 tie beams, 3x4 studs, and 3x5 braces. What the stock list didn't have was any lengths to any of these frame parts. I explained to the project manager that I needed to know the lengths they needed.

They didn't have the lengths, and wanted me to bring my bed extension and just saw up what was there full length and make boards out of the rest of the lumber.

When I arrived last Friday with my bed extension on my flat bed trailer, I met with the owner who I knew, and asked her: "who made up this stock list?"
She said: "why?" I said because I needed to talk to him as it was incomplete.
She introduced me to the guy as he was there on site as they just tore down the old addition from the side of the farm house.

I explained to him that I needed the lengths of the timbers in order to fill his order.

He explained to me that the addition had not be designed yet. And that they didn't have the lengths. They didn't know if the gable end was going this way or that way. I questioned him repeatedly that I needed lengths. We did narrow down the lengths of the braces and the studs but that was it.
As the studs were 10' I suggested that the post could also be 10' as they should be the length of the studs.
He wanted long posts as they didn't know the design, yet, and they wanted to get the most out of the logs that were there.

So, Monday morning I set up the mill and bed extension and started sawing.

I explained to the project manager that I was going to need some heavy equipment to be on site while I was there to lift off the timbers from the mill as I couldn't carry them away by hand.
The owner said she had a set of forks for one of her tractors and that she'd put them on and make it available for me to use.
I asked her if she wasn't on site would I be able to use her tractor to lift them off, and she said yes.

Here is a picture of the nice tractor they left me to use:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Here is the farm and the barn that they have already rebuilt and restored:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

The rebuilt and restored the carriage shed also shown in the picture.

Here is my set up for milling long logs on site:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

And some of the long timbers and boards:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I had marked the ends of the logs with red lumber crayon as I did the log inventory and then they painted the ends of the logs with red paint.
I don't completely understand why the painted the ends of the logs with different color paint but the painted the red pine logs red and the white pine logs black.
I believe she wants to stack the boards on stickers by type and I think she thought this would make it easier for them to sort.

Sawing long logs from a pile can be a challenge if you don't get them rolled up to the loader arms on center.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Here you can see as I was trying to load a 22' log the weight was off center and the butt end rose up and it was a problem.
I had my logging choker cable with me and a chain so I hooked it up to the front of my truck and pulled it to balance so that I could load it.

While loading a long one yesterday, I saw this:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Four nails head, colored red with my lumber crayon.

It was great for me to find this up front, as I have already sawn off two nails on this job.

I just thought I'd share this with you.
Thanks for reading it.

Jim Rogers

Offline Magicman

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2012, 10:34:17 PM »
How to saw those crotch logs really depends upon what the customer wants.  If he wants crotch lumber and possibly burl/figured then the final saw through is like a pair of pants.

If on the other hand he wants the maximum flat lumber, then raise the butt, level the log, and saw butt to limb tip.  Rotate 180°, again raise the butt and saw butt to limb tip.  Only the crotch wedge will remain un-sawed.  You can have either live edges or S4S again depending upon what the customer wants.
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Offline Piston

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2012, 10:52:08 PM »
Looks like a fun job Jim! 

What town are you working in?

 I'm gonna start clearing my NH land in 3 weeks and I should have a good pile of logs to mill on the little LT15. 

Thanks for posting your progress! 
-Matt
“What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race.”

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2012, 10:37:14 AM »
I didn't offer the customer the option of cutting off the fork.

I just was told to mill everything up as wide as possible. When the project manager saw the log he asked me how I intended to saw it.

I explained it to him as magicman has explained, and I have shown the picture of how I started sawing it.
I cut off the short side of the fork first, with the butt raised so that the center of the fork was even with the pith on the butt end, trying to get some straight grained lumber.

Once I got it down under 24" tall but cutting some off of each opposite side, I trimmed it down to try and get some 14" wide pieces but I actually finished it up at 12" wide. I did get some wide ones off he "pants side" but they were short.

Got to go.

Jim Rogers

PS. Piston, the job is in Boxford next town over from me.

LaserZX:
That is a 4" 22.5° 45° PVC elbow with a simple conduit bracket to make the hook.
It is probably the third one I have made.
One was destroyed when the blade broke and came out the sawdust chute. I have posted pictures of that here. I think the tread was called "They said it could happen". But I'm not sure about that right now.

I can take a picture of it today and will post it tonight.
The current one split one winter day when the temp got real cold and the plastic contracted more then the metal and it split up the bottom side. This does make it looser on the mill. But that was a good thing as the other day when the blade broke and it came out the chute again, it didn't destroy the elbow, it just pushed it off the mill.

I'm sure I have written a story about the reason why I use it but basically I don't like to walk in the tall pile of sawdust. I like a nice even carpet of sawdust and the customers like having all the sawdust in one pile for them to scoop up and haul off.
Sometimes the customer provides a wheel barrow to dump in and they wheel that off while I'm sawing.
I saw to the end of the log and then if the bucket needs emptying I dump it.
I try not to switch buckets, as I have two, during cutting as I don't want to put myself at risk of being hit by the broken blade if it comes out the chute. All but one of my sawdust "fingers" in the mill sawdust chute are gone. Don't know when or how but when I looked in there the other day I could only see one on the side.

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2012, 02:19:00 PM »
LaserZX:
Here is the photo you wanted:



And you can see that I have it on upside down. That way the bucket hangs a little higher off the ground:



I don't know why I set this up this way but I did. And I find it works better upside down then right side up.

Here is a picture of the split in the elbow:



Here is a picture of the last elbow when the blade came out and caught it right on the bolt that holds the hook on:



You need to be careful of this:



Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2012, 04:34:25 PM »
This job is done!

I finished up the last maple log yesterday morning, and brought the mill home yesterday afternoon, in between rain/sleet/hail and thunder storms.

Today, being a nice sunny day, I went over there and got my bed extension back:



And this is the slab/edging pile now:



Most of the hardwood slabs and edging got put into a different pile for firewood.

Here is the lumber all stacked up by the owner and her crew:



And they brought in some older timbers and mixed them into the timbers piles:



and:



With more in the foreground to stack.

She cleaned up the yard with this:



That is right where the log pile was. It's just there in photos now....

Hopefully they will ask me back again when they need more milled.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Misfit

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2012, 04:55:31 PM »
An enjoyable sawing report Jim. Thanks for posting it and all the pictures. i learn a little more each time I read something like this. 

Having a cantilevered head was certainly an advantage in loading that one log! Was it extra long or just lined up off-center to the loading arms?

Seeing stacks of freshly milled lumber like that keeps me yearning for the day I get to join in the fun.  8)
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2012, 07:03:23 PM »
Some of the long logs I had to pull back to center the balance point on the loader arms so that the mill would pick them up.
Then I had so shift them back to allow the blade to drop behind the end so I could mill them.
That's what happened with the long ones.

The forked one was just a pain to load do to the fork preventing me from being able to roll it with a peavy by hand.

I hope that answers your questions.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline cutterboy

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2012, 09:53:28 PM »
Jim, I just read through this post tonight and enjoyed it very much. Thanks so much for taking the time to upload and post all those pictures, I know that takes a lot of time.

Those long posts sure do look nice.

Offline Magicman

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2012, 10:00:33 PM »
You did good.  I love to drive away leaving neatly stacked/stickered lumber and a satisfied customer.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2012, 04:45:14 AM »
Jim, I always enjoy reading your posts, and seeing the photo's of what you have done.  Thanks much for taking the time to share.

Scott
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Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
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and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2012, 10:35:20 AM »
Thanks Scott.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2016, 04:43:11 PM »
I wonder if a Fernco fitting elbow would work better. They are made out of rubber.

 

 
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Offline flatrock58

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2016, 05:34:16 PM »
Jim
How hard is it to line up the 6' extension on a remote job?  I have a 6' extension and have been trying to decide if I want to keep it or sell it.  Just thought it would not work well unless you were set up stationary.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2016, 06:51:50 PM »
Jim
How hard is it to line up the 6' extension on a remote job?  I have a 6' extension and have been trying to decide if I want to keep it or sell it.  Just thought it would not work well unless you were set up stationary.

I put my extension on 6 scissor jacks. Very adajustable.
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2016, 08:49:19 PM »
I have been hooking up and using my 6' bed extension on dirt and gravel driveways since I got it.
As long as you have the two round rails touching and in line and ridged then it will work. You may have to block up the spots under the legs of the extension table to make it strong enough to support the heavy end of a long log, or dig out to level.
But since I drilled my rails out and put in the alignment pins it has been a lot easier to assemble.

We did it at the last job in less than an hour, on a crushed stone driveway.
With the fixed channel iron support between the bed extension and the sawmill along with the yoke around the tail light bracket the extension is stiff and ridged when it is all bolted up.

I wrote a step by step guide here on the forum with pictures showing how I hook my up.
It is here:
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,57707.0.html

Jim Rogers
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2016, 09:43:09 PM »
Jim, my inclination would have been to NOT mill the logs until they had a design.  The sized they requested were a bit odd as well.  7x7 in pine?  I figure you at least want 8x8 and maybe even 8x10.  I would also consider leaving an extra half inch at least in case of twist.  But then that leads to milling the timbers again.  If I was going to plane them, I'd let them air dry until closer to the time they needed them and then plane them.

I have a similar situation now.  I'm starting the design of my house.  I recently acquired some white oak and hickory logs.  I don't want to cut them though until I know what I really need out of them.  So I have the logs in my pole barn.  Last year I had a large standing dead walnut and a large ash that was at least half dry.  I milled a 10.5x10.5 from each and 3.5x7.5 brace stock from out side of that and some 4/4 boards.  I'll come back and remill or beam plane as needed when the design is done.  If I have to cut them down I will.  I'd be afraid to cut too small, which I fear could end up being your customers problem.    Sufficed to say, I'd rather not mill until I have a real cut list, which I'm sure you do too.

I lament that the forked log was cut as it was.   That was a prime piece for a forked post cut flat on two sides.  Yes you would have needed  a Grandberg mill, but I could have really been a special piece in the frame.  I wish I could find logs as nice as that one to do this with.  I've found a couple hardwood logs, but the two trunks after the crotch are smaller than I would really prefer.
 

 
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Offline flatrock58

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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2016, 11:27:09 PM »
Jim,

Thanks.  I just figured with the fixed legs it would be hard to get it lined up.

I remember your guide now.  I tried to get the jig to drill the alignment pins, but never was able to figure out who had it last.  I need to drill my rails and try it out.  They guy I bought the mill from never used the extension or the resaw.
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Re: On site milling for a future timber frame
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2016, 06:06:39 AM »
Hey Brad.. Are you a Christmas tree farmer ?

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