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Author Topic: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!  (Read 4961 times)

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Offline Kevin_H.

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Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« on: February 28, 2004, 02:39:29 PM »
Well we tried to put the power to gang saw today...Looks like we may have a problem. When we threw the switch we would blow the 60 amp breaker and the 200 amp main.

The motor is a 10 hp single phase 220. lesson.

Now we noticed a problem with one of the motor run capacitor, it looks like it may have gotten a little hot, we noted this before we ever put the power to it. I figured it would have to be replaced in the future, but since the saw ran when it was taken out of service we thought we could at least put some power to it to see if it would run.



now I have found what I think is a replacement from the surplus center.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2003041712300837&item=22-1183&catname=electric

The difference I can see is that the old one says "55uf/370/60hz
and the new one looks like 15mfd/370/50-60hz

They look identical

I realize this may be a tall question, but any idea if the new one is right?

Any and all answers and questions welcome...
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2004, 02:43:13 PM »
Ok I have also found a 50mfd/370/60hz,

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2003041712300837&item=22-1119&catname=electric

This one looks a bit heaver...
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline Norm

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2004, 02:54:21 PM »
That one you found at surplus center will work. The 50mfd/370/60hz, not the 15mfd one. They actually should be labeled with ufd but some of the newer ones use the mfd intending the same thing. If in doubt call them to be sure it is the same. Make sure you hook it up with polarity right. It looks like the wire that was hooked to the caps was too small and caused overheating. You'll want to replace it with new wire is possible. Put new connecters on the wire too.

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2004, 03:01:12 PM »
Thanks norm...The wiring is all factory, but we will replace it as it also got a little hot.

This motor has what looks like 2 run capacitors and 4 start capacitors.

Hopefully the new one is the same size as there is only one place it can go.  ;D

Maybe I'll giv'em a call on monday
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2004, 03:22:38 PM »
 :D ;D :D

This must be what we call the try and fry method which cost more in the end sometimes. ;)

cheers
Move'n on.

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2004, 04:04:59 PM »
I dont know what is soooo special about that blue smoke, but once you let it out of anything electrical...that's pert near the end of the day  ;D

Hey SD the capacitor was "smoked" and melted before we put the power to it, but we thought we would give it a try anyway. ;)

I just looked up the part on the leeson website...They want like 35 bucks for the part...I think it was 7.99 at the surplus center. Hmm.
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2004, 04:51:25 PM »
Kevin:

Sounds familiar in pricing strategies. I wanted a replacement battery pack for my Panasonic GPS and they want $137.00, and I found it on Laptops For Less for $50.00. It not in stock, but says it will be available there in March. I'm in no hurry at the moment. Guess where I'm gonna get it from ? :) I bought a power supply there quite cheep. I asked locally and never got no return phone calls so I ordered it one night and had it in 24 hrs at my door UPS.  :)
Move'n on.

Online WV_hillbilly

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2004, 06:04:38 PM »
   Kevin

        We jokingly call it a smoke test at work when something gets hooked up . :D I it doesn't smoke your okay .   8)   If it does smoke someones  in trouble :o and everyone else gets to rib that person for a while . But then again  the equipment doesn't belong to us either .
Hillbilly

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2004, 08:09:56 PM »
Kevin,

Take your belts off the motor, tape up the wires that went to your blown out run cap. The motor should start and run without the one run cap, if it doen't start , forget buying a new run cap, the motor armature winding has a short.

Offline ADfields

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2004, 01:24:24 AM »
The wife has pestered me for ten years now for crossing the common with a 120v line off the gen-set and feeding 240v to her new Hoover. :o   Man did it suck great for a bit before the smoking started. ::)   Every time I go to plug something in I hear "Is that 240?" she has got a lot of fun out of that! ::)       ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >:(DanG twist lock plugs anyhow! >:(

Andy

Offline J_T

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2004, 09:05:18 AM »
You can go +or - 10% I try to go + as all my stuf is old . You can take a cheep ohm meter a test most capastors a start will rise then fall then reverse leads and try that way I saved a lot ot them off old central units . Have not found one to be polarity conserned .Have replaced some with a hard start kit just cause I had it handy .Blue smoke test not good. :(
Jim Holloway

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2004, 11:39:07 AM »
Quote
Kevin,

Take your belts off the motor, tape up the wires that went to your blown out run cap. The motor should start and run without the one run cap, if it doen't start , forget buying a new run cap, the motor armature winding has a short.



Let me see if I have this right...the wires from the "Smoked" run cap need to be connected (taped) as if the cap was still there in order to complete the circut, Then the motor should start and run.

We wont be back over at the mill until tuesday...Might have to give that one a try.
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2004, 08:56:32 PM »
Kevin,

You said there was two run capacitor, they are in parallel, so removing one will have little effect. The run capacitors are to correct the power factor so the motor will draw less current. The starting capacitors cause a phase shift with a winding to start the motor rotation, it will not start if these are bad.

Offline sawyerkirk

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2004, 05:11:27 PM »
Hey Kevin, I picked up an old Alden gang/rip the other day at an auction, and am trying to locate blades for it. Whta size arbor does your edger have? This thing takes a 2-3/4 arbor, and nobody has ever heard of such a thing. I am thinking of taking the collars off and using a 1-3/4" arbor, but am still trying to decide why I can't do that! Oh yeah, and I have a 20 hp 3 phase if you want it.

Offline Jason_WI

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2004, 07:11:44 PM »
Those Leeson motors are ropeless boat anchors as far as I'm concerned. >:( >:(

We used a few of them on the farm cause they were a few bux cheaper than a Dayton, or a GE. After three years all of them have been replaced. The Leeson 7.5 hp on the vacuum pump would get hot enough to fry eggs on it. That one has been replaced by a Dayton. The 10 HP Leeson on the silo unloader that we had to drag down the silo twice before was replaced by a 20 year old GE just a month ago.

The run caps melting down on these is common failure.

Do your self a favor and replace that motor. Barely worth shipping ballast cause it's round.......

Jason
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2004, 07:56:56 PM »
Jason,

What does a volt meter say for the location that the motors burned-up?  My findings would agree with you on motor heat, my 7 1/2 hp Baldor  on the sawmill get so hot that it smells, I put extra fans on it to reduce the temp. The old U frame motor run cool.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2004, 05:45:50 AM »
I wonder how much heat those 300 HP GE electric motors produce at the kraft pulp mill. :) I've walked through a local kraft pulp mill on 3 tours over the last 15 years and they have several of these sized motors running throughout the mill. No wonder they have to generate some of their own power.   :o
Move'n on.

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2004, 06:42:31 AM »
I have not tested the run cap that we took out, it looks pretty melted, so it need replaced anyway, the new cap will be here in about a week. I hope that it solves the problem, Leeson tells us that the main reason for a run cap failure is too high an amb. temp or a power spike. Like I said earlier, the run cap looked shot before we even hooked our power to it.

Right now we have more time than money so if we can get this motor to run under power we will use it until something better comes along

Hey Kirk, I'm not sure what the dia of the arbor dia is, I think the blade needs a 2" hole for the collar...I will check today and get back to ya, I think that who ever you order blades from should be able to machine out to the right size, Maybe Menominee saw can help us out with that?

What kind of power supply are you using for your gang?...and keep that 3ph handy, we might need it.  ;D



Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2004, 06:50:31 AM »
Hey jason thanks for the heads up bout leeson, If we need to replace the motor I think we will go 3 ph so that we could get a little more hp, The down side is that we will not have 3 ph until we move into the new shop sometime this summer, and a phase converter will cost more than the motor.

Now I know there are ways of building a converter, but I cant get a simple single phase 220 motor to work,doesn't leave much hope for me being able to build a phase converter. ;D :D ;D
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline whitepe

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Re: Need Some Elec. Motor Help!!
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2004, 06:56:35 AM »
15 microfarads doesn't equal 55 microfarads.
You need the 55.  I was once working on a power
supply and accidentally put a 12 volt polarized
capacitor into a 24 volt power supply circuit.
The voltage looked good for about 2 minutes till
the capacitor let go. I had bits of cardboard, mylar
and metal foil flying around the room
blue by day, orange by night and green in between


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