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Author Topic: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw  (Read 2135 times)

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Offline mjeselskis

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Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« on: June 09, 2012, 08:34:22 PM »
I just finished my first mobile job with my LT28, and am wondering if my results are typical or accurate. The customer told me he scaled the logs prior to us starting at 5000 bd ft. We sawed them and were very careful to save everything down to 1"x3"x4'. No good boards went into the slab pile. We had logs that ranged from 6" up to 26". After we counted it all up, I had cut 7000 bd ft of lumber. I know that it's possible and quite probable to recover more than the scaled volume, but is it really possible to recover 40% over scaled? I know we counted the lumber accurately at the end, the only thing I don't know is how well he scaled the logs at the beginning.

Either way, it was a good first job, and I am glad I'm done.
2006 WM LT28  2002 John Deere 990

Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 08:41:46 PM »
Tell me if I'm wrong. The old scales are based on a 1/4 inch thick blade. Your LT 28 blade is 1/16 of an inch thick.

You gain lumber using a band mill.

Am I right someone?
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Offline paul case

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 08:43:55 PM »
I have had similiar results. Here is some reading on that and some other subjects as well. PC http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40204.msg577874.html#msg577874
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Offline beenthere

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 09:07:36 PM »
mj
Did he pay you on his log scale or your bd. ft. recovery?

Poston..
There were a lot of 'old scales', but we don't know which scale was used.

Must be possible, as mj did it.  8)
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Offline Kansas

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 09:17:20 PM »
If the logs are smaller and good, 40% is easily attained for an overrun. If they are bigger, the gap between the Doyle Scale and log tallies narrows. Not so sure on 12 inch logs you wouldn't beat that 40% by a bit. Course you don't know how he scaled them, but we usually figure about 20% to 30% overrun straight through. But then we cut a lot of 30"+ logs.

Offline mjeselskis

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 09:25:57 PM »
mj
Did he pay you on his log scale or your bd. ft. recovery?

Poston..
There were a lot of 'old scales', but we don't know which scale was used.

Must be possible, as mj did it.  8)

I got paid on recovered lumber, so it worked out well for me
2006 WM LT28  2002 John Deere 990

Offline MHineman

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2012, 12:00:40 AM »
  I prefer to not have to measure the lumber after it's cut, and besides many people are moving the lumber and putting it away as we cut so we can use the same wagon several times in the same day.

  I scale the logs with the International 4/4 scale as the log goes on the mill.  I bill from that.

  I tell the customer up front how I bill and that a rough (knotty) or crooked log will not yield as well.  I explain that even if the log does not yield as much as it's clear and straight cousin, it is still just as much time and work for me.  If fact, it is usually more work.

  That gives the customer the option to choose to saw it or not before it gets loaded.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2012, 07:53:06 AM »
Using the thin kerf bandmill you will usually beat the scales and make an extra buck or two.  I  charge on measured sawn wood, $/bdft.  That's why I like the thin kerf of a band mill.  Last weekend I sawed up 1,140 bdft of oak and hickory for a customer, they patted me on the back because they scaled the logs to about 800 bdft before they brought them to me.  They were happy because they got more lumber than they expected and I was happy because I got more yield than they expected and so more profit .  Every body wins.
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Offline sealark37

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 09:13:29 AM »
Keep in mind that the various log scales were calculated for commercial operations that not only had a much wider kerf, but did not try to recover short boards or edge to recover maximum yield.  They also did not even try to saw logs that were less than 8".  When you take the time to recover these losses, you will easily exceed the commercial scale numbers.  It's all part of the fun.  I have seen older sawyers on circle rigs toss slabs away that would have made several short or narrow boards that would have been useable, simply because it took too much time to process them.  Regards, Clark

Offline macpower

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 10:35:10 AM »
I count on a 10-12% over log scale, (1/4 Int.), usually more than that if logs are smaller. Also I would never trust scaled logs unless I knew who scaled them. Generally I don't cut smaller than a 1x4 unless it's asked for, (you can go broke on time if you try to recover everything), and I charge for bdft of sawed lumber. I seem to make out best sawing smaller stuff, shorts, odd ball stuff no one else will do, etc. I keep a tally book and scale and mark every time I take a break.
Had a customer bring me 400bdft, his scale, of ewp to saw 4/4, when I ended up with over 600bdft of product he only wanted to pay for the 400. It was nice to have a contract in this case, he picked out 400ft and left me the rest.
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Offline Kansas

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 10:50:33 AM »
You never can recover everything, anyway. We generally cut a bit deeper than that but run the outside slabs through a gang edger. The blades are set at 3 1/2. Then they are cut to length, then run through a band resaw for pallet boards, 1/2 inch thick. Are we really gaining? There is no way I can do proper accounting to figure it out. I am sure we make money doing it; just not sure its that much. But what always amazes me is how big the slash pile is. And now that we got the grinder up and going we got from Cedarman and company, I can't believe how much mulch we generate.

If you are getting that kind of overrun on the Int scale, you are doing good. And you are right about not trusting a customer scaling logs. I have two loggers I trust to scale right. Everything else gets scaled by us.

Offline Cedarman

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 07:58:30 AM »
We sort slabs coming off the scragg into slabs for mulch conveyor, slaps for resaw. We have a buffer area to collect slabs if resaw is shut down, but usually put slaps into resaw if it will make a 3/4" x 3 1/2" x 4' or a cull board with 50% red to grind into specialized sawdust.  All edging strips, floor sweepings, slabs head down the belt to the hog to make mulch which is blown into a truck.
When you measure a 6" log, it can be 6" or up to 6 7/8" x 8' and it still has 11' in it on the cedar scale.  The 6 7/8" has about 30% more volume than a 6" log, so there can be a big difference in yield on small logs of the same size.
The larger the log, the less difference it will make. 10" log you are at 17% difference.
We saw down to 4".
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Offline millwright

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Re: Recovery over scaled volume with bandsaw
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2012, 05:24:12 PM »
I find that we usually will end up with up to 25% over scale on decent logs with a WM.


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