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Author Topic: circular sawmill drive  (Read 4130 times)

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Offline NMFP

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circular sawmill drive
« on: June 21, 2012, 08:18:07 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I am in need of some advice as to how to couple my power unit to the shaft on the husk.  I am running an Isuzu 4 cylinder diesel (130 hp) with a Jatc 4 speed automatic transmission. The drive shaft comeing from the transmission is 3.25" diameter and the shaft on the mill is 2.625".  The simplest thing to do would be direct drive the shaft from the transmission but do you think a series of pulleys would be better?  If so, where can I get pulleys at a reasonable price as well as adapting hardware to attach to each shaft?  Running a small pulley on the drive shaft and a larger one on the husk shaft would provide more torque but which way would you go?

Thanks and please advise.

NMFP

Offline snowshoveler

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012, 08:24:48 PM »
The boys in the know aren't going to like the auto tranny.
Some use them locked in the desired gear but the torque converter will slip some.
You need your engine running at its torque peak and your blade running at its hammered speed.
 Regards Chris
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Offline Indiana Robinson

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 08:43:18 PM »
I am constantly telling folks (to the point that some probably get tired of me  :)) that when you start working to fabricate a power unit, a heavy drive or anything hydraulic to go find a farm combine salvage yard or look for cheap old ones that are too small for the big guys and too big for the small acreage guys.  :)
More goodies there to work with than you can shake a stick at... All it takes is some imagination and forums like this one are full of imagination.
An off-side example is that big old chaff blower under the middle of them. Running at your back it will chase the sawdust away well.  :)

.
Lifetime farmer.
Lifetime sawdust lover.
Old Tractor lover.
 Have worn a lot of hats.
Once owned a Kasco mill that would saw a 30"x24' log. Now a new little LT-10 Woodmizer for my own lumber.
And yes, my woodshop is seriously infested with Shopsmiths.
Old geezer trying hard not to be one. :-)

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 08:57:34 PM »
NMFP,your first consideration should be the direction the engine turns and what the mill requires.The easiest would be to use universal joints and a shear pin.If you could find the drive shaft from the truck, then you just have to convert to the arbor.As to shear pin,  ask the Belsaw guys what they use as to size and hardness.You want the drive shaft in time and not at too great an angle. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline NMFP

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 09:17:27 PM »
Bandmiller2:

The mill is right hand and if I direct drive, I have my choice of any of the 4 foreward gears.  I have not checked rpm yet but I am thinking second gear will porovie the correct rpms and power curve for sawing required.  I am not worried about obtaining a certain speed because I will have the new saw hammered for whever rpm I will require.  If my calculations are correct, I think the saw will turn at approx 610 rpms.

Are therer any places to purchase adapters to connect from a 3.25" drive shaft on the transmission to a 2.625" shaft on the husk?  With natural gas stuff in out area, haveing anything made is out of question due to cost along with most salvage items because of scrap prices.

Do you think there will be enough torque to run the saw with being direct drive?

Erich

Offline Mooseherder

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 09:50:19 PM »
There is a coupler available for you driveshaft that would marry the two.
You can't see it very good in this photo but it is the rubber coupler with metal on each side.
The rubber would shear if it needed to.  The motor and pto is behind the wall and the husk is to the left.
Jeff or Ron may know it's correct name.

 

 
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Offline NMFP

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 09:59:20 PM »
Do you happen to know where I could locate one at?  Is thare an online source?  This looks almost exactly like what I need.

Thanks!

Offline Mooseherder

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 10:09:23 PM »
I've seen a better picture of one here before that someone else posted.
I can't remember who had it though.  I only have this one and don't know where I could replace it from.
Somebody here will chime in with a source if they see your thread.
I'll try and help with a search.
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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 10:13:30 PM »
I don't know anything about this company but they appear to have what you need or use for reference.
Looks like Tire Couplings is the keyword.

http://mdmetric.com/prod/fenner/tyre.html
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Offline pineywoods

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 10:22:29 PM »
That's probably a lovejoy coupling, try a google search for on-line sources. Surplus center has them in smaller sizes, probly need one rated for 30-49 hp at least.
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Offline Satamax

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 12:47:02 AM »
Being french i started with elastic coupling, but in english it's called flexible coupling in general.

http://www.google.fr/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADFA_frFR472FR472&q=Flexible+couplings
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Offline captain_crunch

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2012, 01:19:08 AM »
My biggest concern would be cooling auto tranny fluid and there will always be slow down at arbor due to auto will always slip due to their design when encountering load changes
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Offline NMFP

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2012, 07:14:15 AM »
The transmission is an auto but also has a clutch.  I can select any gear and maintain that gear without the transmission shifting.

As for cooling, I have planned on adapting a large transmission cooler to it to keep the fluid cool.

I have found the type of flexible coupler but cannot sem to find one with a bore large enough.  McMaster Carr has them in stock so I will probably call them today.

Thanks!

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 07:39:23 AM »
Erich,you say theirs a 3.25" shaft output from the transmission,it must be splined,and likely metric.It will be difficult to fit a flex coupling to that spline and hold it on.I'd get the "U" joint flange intended for that truck and a short drive line.You can get truck "U" joints with a flange that will bolt to a flat surface like a taper lock pulley on the arbor.Depending on the trans. torque converter it may satisfy the need for slippage if something hangs up,unless it locks up clutches,and thats usally only in the high roadgear. You should have plenty of power speed control is anouther question as road trucks usally only have a limiting speed type governor. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline NMFP

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 07:50:05 AM »
Frank:

This transmission actually has a hand brake on the tail shaft with brake shoes in it where the U joint attaches and then a drive shaft from that so basically, think of a brake drum mounted on the end of a transmission with a U joint bolted to that. 

I had thought about having a 2 piece couple machined and replacing the 3.25" drive shaft with something that is 2.625", the same as the shaft on the husk so that the collar could easily be machined and assembled.

Like I said though, this area has been hit hard with Natural Gas activity and machine shops are now charging well over $200 an hour because the gas companies will pay it.  Trying to find everything I need on the internet is a much less expensive way to go that locally, unfortunately.

The other week I needed a final drive for a farmall cub so I checked locally at a large tractor salavege company.  They had 30 some plus of them in stock from disassembled tractors and they told me the price would be $550 each, plus I had to bring the old final drive in so they could scrap it.  I ended up ordering one from a tractor salvage company in Iowa and the price was $125 and no core charge.  Big difference!

Offline lyle niemi

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 07:52:38 AM »
I am constantly telling folks (to the point that some probably get tired of me  :)) that when you start working to fabricate a power unit, a heavy drive or anything hydraulic to go find a farm combine salvage yard or look for cheap old ones that are too small for the big guys and too big for the small acreage guys.  :)
More goodies there to work with than you can shake a stick at... All it takes is some imagination and forums like this one are full of imagination.
An off-side example is that big old chaff blower under the middle of them. Running at your back it will chase the sawdust away well.  :)

.
I have saved myself many dollars by dragging that old 730 JD combine home

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 08:14:36 AM »
Erich,its tough living in a natural gas boomtown,theirs alot of poor dirt farmers rideing around in beemers now.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline NMFP

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 08:07:49 PM »
At this point, we arent all doing that though.  There have been some major improvements but yet, also some set backs as well.

I have found a source for some flex couplers locally so I think I am on the right track.

On another note, I was reading about the engine and the hp is 135 and the torque is approx 250 ft pounds.  The torque converter in the transmission should increase the torque to the drive line but does anyone know how the torqu converter with the transmission would increase the torque?  I am wondering how much torque I will actually have when running the engine at the high end of the power curve.  Would it be somewhere around 400 ft pounds? 

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 06:59:09 AM »
NMFP,I'am sure someone here can do the math,but not me.If you have an honest 135 hp and you run in 2cd gear youll have the moxie to turn the saw.Of more concern is governing, a road truck usally has a limiting speed gov.If you adjust that gov. down to a lower top speed then hold the throttle open it should hold that speed until you reach the limits of that engines power.The only way a torque converter can increase torque is if it acts like a transmission and gears down.Keep us posted mate. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline NMFP

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Re: circular sawmill drive
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 09:59:07 PM »
Does anyone happen to know how to calculate the torque through an automatic transmission?  The engine has approx 250 ft lbs of torque but can that be increased through the torque converter in the automatic transmission?  The reason I ask is because I need the maximum torque to order the flex coupler for this connection.

Thanks everyone for the help.


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