The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Tally-I/O




Author Topic: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?  (Read 19810 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline luke

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Gender: Male
  • My motto "I can"
    • Share Post
Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« on: December 06, 2003, 07:51:04 PM »
Hi everyone,

Is the Nyle L200 DH Kiln, the same Dry Kiln, as woodmizer's DH4000 Dry Kiln?
:P
Checking into grade sawing, building a dry kiln and moulding machines.

Offline Paul_H

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6656
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Enderby,BC
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2003, 09:41:59 PM »
Pretty much the same unit,with some minor differences in the controls.The DH4000 is made by Nyle for WM and are the same sized unit.

What I know about kilns,wouldn't write a very big book,so I'm going to step aside and hopefully some other members will hop in and answer. :P
eg  tregar  meste  på  Tulla, for  ho  var  krulla  i  ulla.

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4217
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2003, 05:53:42 AM »
From what I've heard, Paul is correct. The L200 and the DH4000 are both dehumidification units built by Nyle.

They're marketed differently. WoodMizer says it can dry oak in 4-5 weeks. Nyle says it can condense about 250 lbs of water per day from 2000 to 4000 BF. If you calculate the weight of water that needs to be removed from 4000 BF of Red Oak (4000 x .00449 x 62 x 8.34), you get 9291 lbs of water. If you remove 250 gallons per day (9291 / 250) you get 37 days (a little more than 5 weeks).

Neither has much for control. Nyle supplies a cycle timer for the compressor. WoodMizer suppliers a humidistat from Honeywell.

Offline Brian_Bailey

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Male
  • A Great State to be From!
    • Share Post
    • baileyswoodworking.com
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2003, 07:39:17 AM »
The nice feature about these units is their simplicity in taking wood down to the 6 - 8 % mc level consistently.

I have a NYLE L-150 which has a 1 3/4 hp compressor.  The L-200 has a 2 hp compressor.

Mine has basically 2 controls. One to adjust the chamber temp. and one to control the amount of compressor run time. By following Nyle's drying instructions / schedules it is pretty darn hard to ruin any lumber your drying. Once you have gained some experience running the kiln you can push the envelope so to speak and dry a lot faster but at the risk of some degrade.

IMHO, don't see the need for humidistat controls in this size kiln. Why complicate things?

Automatic over temp. vents would be nice but not necessary.

I would be hesitant in drying 4000 bf of green hardwoods in this size kiln, esp. maple as the compressor is too small to pull the water out fast enough to maintain a proper rate of drying. But, then again, that's MO for what it's worth  :D.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Offline oakiemac

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1472
  • Location: south west Michigan
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless the U.S.A!
    • Share Post
    • Hickoryandoak
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2003, 03:45:51 PM »
Den,

I've read some of your posts and you seem to be real big on tight control for kilns and you seem to have the knowledge/experience. My question is, what kiln do you recommend that is in the price range of a Nyle L200 (approx.$4200)? Is tight control really needed for small kiln operations? Is the added cost made up for in shorter cycles. less loss of product, or better quality?
I'm asking these questions not to be a smart a**, but because I am a beginner and want to make informed decisions. I too have been eye balling the L200, but I'd like to know if there is anything better out there for the money.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4217
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2003, 05:01:22 PM »
Okiemac,

I'm into tight kiln control because the companies that I work with want to make the most money possible from their kilns. They want the shortest drying time possible. They want minimal degrade and they want predictable results. That means they need tight control.

The L200 "out of the box" might be just fine for many people. If you are in no hurry, lack of control can be offset by taking it real slow. But the same kiln could do much more with a decent controller.

Den

Offline SawInIt CA

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • Age: 57
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to eat sawdust
    • Share Post
    • Logs to Lumber
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2003, 07:58:26 AM »
So are you saying that the nyle would benifet from better controls or that another entire controler with more flexibility might be better. ??? I am in the market for a kiln to dry mostly softwoods but some hardwoods.

Offline Brian_Bailey

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Male
  • A Great State to be From!
    • Share Post
    • baileyswoodworking.com
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2003, 10:14:48 AM »
Den,  
I think we should be making sure that we are comparing apples with apples here. The kilns that your customers are using are probably not small volume, low temperature ( 120 degree max.) DH kilns but rather large volume, high temperature ones. There's no question that tight control of the drying process is required in the higher temp. units using steam, DH, Vac, or what ever to dry the wood.

Nyle has been making these low temp kilns for quite awhile.  I believe that if they felt tighter ( read this as more expensive )controls would result in a better finished product, they would have incorporated it into their controller.

Again, just MO ;).

WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Offline Tom

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 25838
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Jacksonville, Florida
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Toms Saw
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2003, 12:07:48 PM »
I think what you are hearing from Den is a perpetuation of his involvement in the design of kilns which places him on the road of always discovering a better mouse trap.  He's not saying that a less sophisticated kiln won't work but rather that a modification would make it more efficient.  Having heard his defense of vacuum kilns elsewhere, I savor his opinions of what will work, what won't and what will work best.  Not that he needs any defense nor that I consider your post an attack, it's just that I personally respect his opinions and feel good about touting them. :)
extinct

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4217
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2003, 01:31:56 PM »
Thank you, Tom.

Brian,

When you're drying hardwood, regardless of the size or type of kiln you are using, you must be careful to keep the difference in moisture content between the center and the outside minimal. The outside has to be dryer to get the water out but not too much dryer or you create stresses in the wood.

In a DH kiln, just like any other, you are drying water off the surface. You keep water moving by condensing some of the water vapor. This lowers the RH and allows the air to pick up more water. If you lower the RH too much, you will overdry the surface and cause yourself a lot of problems.

Through calculations and experience, DH manufacturers know what percentage of the time the compressor needs to run to keep the RH low enough to keep the wood drying. Suppose that 50% RH would be ideal. But, because of factors they can't control they run the compressor a little less and leave the RH a little higher. Maybe the RH is now 60% and drying is a little slower. Then, for a safety factor, maybe you end up with a schedule that keeps 70% much of the time. Your wood still dries. You always have good results. You don't pay for any expensive controller. Why rock the boat? Imagine that you set your RH controller to 50% and it decides how much your compressor will run. maybe you would get quicker results and better color.

Den

Offline DanG

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 13493
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Chattahoochee, Florida USA
  • Gender: Male
  • DanG, The Official ForestryForum Cussword
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2003, 03:06:24 PM »
Any of youse guys that ain't seen it oughta check out Den's website. It is most excellent, and there is a world of info on there. Most of it is oriented toward vac drying, but much of it is generic info that applies to any kind of drying. I've answered a lot of my own questions by lurking around over there.
Just click on the little house on one of his postings. :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline Brian_Bailey

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Male
  • A Great State to be From!
    • Share Post
    • baileyswoodworking.com
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2003, 06:14:46 PM »
Den, Tom -  

My above posts were not intended to be an attack on you or any one else. I thought one of the purposes of this forum was to share ideas and experiences. With that said, let me state that I have been operating a low temp DH kiln since the mid 80s. I am quite familiar with their operation and the fundamentals of drying lumber. I use a lot of what I dry in my woodworking business.

These low temp. DH kilns are designed to be simple to operate so the average guy/gal can consistently dry small quanities of lumber to add value to their operation without having to become a scientist to do so.

Now getting to your statement of a tighter control.

I can precisely control the temperature in the drying chamber and also, precisely regulate the amount of water removed from that chamber with the standard controller. I fail to see the need for tighter controls on this type of kiln. I don't see the need for a better mouse trap as Nyle's design is a pretty darn good one.

Again for what its worth, that's MO  ;).

 
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Offline Norm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7654
  • Age: 63
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2003, 06:53:37 AM »
I guess my thought on why Nyle uses the one they do is it's easy for beginners to use so they get good results without having to be experts in kiln drying. It is a pretty simple system and their pricing shows it. Yes better controls would do a better job but they may be too complicated and expensive for their target market.

Den when you say it could benefit having a better controller what ball park cost whould it be. I'm not asking for a concrete price just your best guess. Would this be a lot easier to use than the present one Nyle supplies? Do you have a rough idea of the time savings in doing a load through the kiln?

I appreciate the help guys I'm just learning. I haven't got tons of experience running my Nyle L200 so this thread has been a big help. It's not like I can go talk with my neighbor to see how he does it. :D

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4217
  • Age: 69
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2003, 08:56:52 AM »
Norm,

I'm sure that Nyle supplies what they do because they want the small kilns to be affordable. With bigger kilns, they include control systems. It would be hard to justify a $2000 control system if you were drying only a couple/few mBF per year.

Guys like Brian, who know what they're doing from lots of experience, could check MC samples frequently and change settings to control RH daily. With electronic controllers, you might set a target RH and a ramp rate down to that target on day one. Then, everything is automatic. You would still check your samples once in awhile to make certain MC is where it's supposed to be. So, I would say an electronic controller should be easier to use. How much faster would depend on how much manual control you presently do.

Den

Offline Norm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7654
  • Age: 63
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2003, 10:24:14 AM »
Thanks Den :)

Offline Brian_Bailey

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Male
  • A Great State to be From!
    • Share Post
    • baileyswoodworking.com
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2003, 03:47:10 PM »
I just want to go on record here and state that I'm not knocking Den's controller or his wanting tight control of the drying process.

I believe we are confusing two different types of DH systems.

One is a low temperature system that max's out at 120 degrees and uses a low hp compressor to remove water slowly from the chamber.

The other is a high temperature system that operates up to 160 degrees and is run much like a conventional dry kiln. This type of DH system needs to have an experienced operator and tight controls as Den has suggested or the results could drastically affect your bottom line. I fully support Den in this regards.

As I stated before, we must make sure we are comparing apples with apples when discussing DH kilns.

If your interested, here's a link to the Dry Kiln Operators Manual at the Forest Products Lab. site.  When the page opens up click on Chapter 7 - Kiln Schedules. It's a PDF file.

When it downloads read the first page or two about why the schedules were developed, then scroll down to the section on DH kilns.
Now check out the tables paying particular attention to the table that shows examples of general schedules. Here you'll find that most of the schedules except the ones for oak have a starting temperature greater than the max operating temp of a low temp. DH system. If you look a little farther you'll find a table that converts a steam kiln schedule to one for a low temp DH one. As you can see things get a little vague here and this is why I feel tight controls aren't necessary. The OEM controls are more than sufficent to acheive the end results.

Oh yeah, the link  :).  

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/ah188/ah188.htm  
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Offline Tom

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 25838
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Jacksonville, Florida
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Toms Saw
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2003, 04:36:58 PM »
Hey! you guys put your expertise on the General Topic where impulse drying is raising its ugly head.  Perhaps you can enlighten some of the questioneers (is that a word?) on the validity of the equipment. :P :D

click for General topic thread
extinct

Offline Brian_Bailey

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Male
  • A Great State to be From!
    • Share Post
    • baileyswoodworking.com
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2003, 07:59:17 PM »
Hey Tom,  

Does this impulse drying take place just before or just after you attain warp speed in hyperspace or is it just another one of those anomalies that occur in a continuum?

I can attest to impulse buying, as my wife frequently exhibits this trait  ;D  :D :D

WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Offline Tom

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 25838
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Jacksonville, Florida
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Toms Saw
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2003, 08:21:26 PM »
It's impulse eating that corners my market.

I think impulse drying must have something to do with the time continuem.  Didn't Einstein say that stuff slowed down as you approached the speed of light?  Well, things must speed up as you approach stagnation.  So, the water in wood must be stagnant cause those N. Koreans aren't too swift.

I've got to think on that logic.  Somehow it doesnt make sense. :D
extinct

Offline Don_Lewis

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
  • Gender: Male
  • dry kilns, heat pumps
    • Share Post
    • nyle
Re: Nyle L200 DH Kiln?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2003, 04:32:55 AM »
This was my first visit here because someone told me about this thread. I read it all and everyone seems to be pretty well informed and on the ball. The L200 is designed for reliability and simplicity. There are good reasons for the approach we use on the WoodMizer unit and the standard L200. The WoodMizer system is better for mixed loads because it pays attention to the conditions of the circulating air. Plenty of people accomplish this with a hygrometer and a little common sense. Nyle builds larger systems with more sophisticated controls, systems that weigh sample boards, systems that automatically adjust conditions based on drying rate etc. There is no way to justify this expense on a small
kiln


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Nyle L200 Kiln

Started by ahlkey on Drying and Processing

7 Replies
3343 Views
Last post August 08, 2009, 08:51:20 AM
by ahlkey
xx
Nyle L200 DH Kiln?

Started by luke on Sawmills and Milling

0 Replies
1976 Views
Last post December 06, 2003, 07:51:04 PM
by luke
xx
Nyle L200 dehumidification kiln

Started by bfaldrich61 on For Sale

10 Replies
5348 Views
Last post April 24, 2019, 03:51:06 PM
by JCK
xx
Brand new to me New Nyle L200 kiln

Started by jcbrotz on Drying and Processing

4 Replies
1937 Views
Last post January 20, 2012, 04:03:13 PM
by FeltzE
 


Powered by EzPortal