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Author Topic: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?  (Read 4575 times)

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Offline drobertson

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I have been doing some TSI with the help of a experienced logger. When surveying the stand he kept mentioning bastard oak.  After asking him, he replied, cross between red and black jack.  It does look like it but the heart shows red oak qualities, just allot more defects.  Is this possible?  or just a weird poor growth of red oak?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Online beenthere

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 04:47:51 PM »
It may just be some local term that the logger uses to classify a lower grade of oak tree (pays less for them). Now there are true red oaks and the class of red oaks that include a number of species.
Hard to say what the logger uses for his terminology.

And it may be Quercus sinuata which is bastard oak.  .
Also, Scarlet oak (Quercus durandii)  is sometimes called bastard oak, both of these being in the white oak group so for sure are not a cross between red and black.

Heard of a log buyer that down graded walnut trees and telling the land owner they were female walnut trees.
Yup, you guessed it. When questioned they had no walnuts. ;)  But he used that when buying and some landowners didn't question it.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline drobertson

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 05:33:47 PM »
Hey man, this is on the up and up, tony is just cutting my timber, no love lost here for him. It is a red oak, just real smelly like black jack. and not much clear even in the butts;  And yea I believe that folks will getcha  if given a chance. 'Some folks are desparate, and will take what they can. this is a case of bug riddin timber and real smelly red oak. Just wondering about cross pollenation.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Online beenthere

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 06:22:27 PM »
The smell is likely bacteria-infected oak. Can happen to the best of oak. ;)

Didn't mean to imply he was raking you off.  :)
south central Wisconsin
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Offline drobertson

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 06:37:37 PM »
Not taken that way at all, there are those who will. there is so much slang in the timber, there needs to be a book on definitions for sure.  We have had so much oak boars that it is hard to tell.  I will get some photos on these just for record.   These are brutal times in the timber industry.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Autocar

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 07:50:06 PM »
I always felt Red oak and Pin oak would cross pollenate some pin oak will pass for red and other times just looking at the bark you know that it will smell and be full of pin knots. But this is my two cents
Bill

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2012, 08:28:28 PM »
Post some pictures of the bark and leaves and we will settle this question.  BT is right, Bastard Oak, Quercus sinuata,  is not even a red oak, but is in the white oak group.  It looks nothing like Northern Red Oak or Blackjack Oak. 

Local names for trees are notoriously wrong.  I suspect that your experienced logger is too.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline drobertson

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 09:39:07 PM »
10-4 on that, local dialect is often quite the challenge to cyfer.  I will gets some samples on digital.  thanks. should have done this first, oh well, once a dummy always a dummy.  be back with this tomorrow,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 09:17:59 PM »
Where is the best place to get help with IDing different trees? Is there a feild guide or something. Local slang is the same in this area. Not exactly sure what to make of it. I know this is a complete newbie question, but I'd really like to know 100% what I have on the mill. Currently, it is some really smelly, what I believe to be red oak.
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Chuck

Offline WDH

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 09:22:29 PM »
Learn to post pictures on here and we can help you with the ID problem.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 09:39:53 PM »
Will Do WDH. I'll grab some pics tomorrow in the daylight. I have a 20" dia. 9' long butt end log on the mill just waitng to be opened up.
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18", Stihl MS180c-18". 2011 Toyota Tacoma, Ringo 12' trailer w/ folding rear gate, Iron & Oak 22 ton splitter.

Chuck

Offline tyb525

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2012, 10:08:01 PM »
A good tree ID book is helpful
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Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 07:31:12 PM »
Heres a shot of the log waiting on the mill. Hope this is enough.

  
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18", Stihl MS180c-18". 2011 Toyota Tacoma, Ringo 12' trailer w/ folding rear gate, Iron & Oak 22 ton splitter.

Chuck

Offline WDH

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 08:02:21 PM »
It is in the red oak group.  Probably black oak.  If it is black oak, the inner bark will be a bright orange color.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Jeff

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 08:05:30 PM »
Just looking at the bark, makes it impossible to tell for sure, but since I live in very good Northern red oak territory and see it a lot, I'd say that is Northern Red Oak. Having said that,  I've seen what looked like perfect trees that opened up to crap and smelled like it too that grew on poor sites, and some that were among perfect specimens. 

I don't think it's black oak, but it certainly could be.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 08:08:05 PM »
Yes, it could easily be northern red oak.  Hard to tell from the bark on the lower bole.  The inner bark will tell the story, one way or the other. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 08:33:26 PM »
This should help. Heres a section of the bark chipped away down to the sap wood.

 
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18", Stihl MS180c-18". 2011 Toyota Tacoma, Ringo 12' trailer w/ folding rear gate, Iron & Oak 22 ton splitter.

Chuck

Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 08:35:15 PM »
And I was able to find a good leaf in the pile of brush from the tree. Should have thought of this sooner.

 
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18", Stihl MS180c-18". 2011 Toyota Tacoma, Ringo 12' trailer w/ folding rear gate, Iron & Oak 22 ton splitter.

Chuck

Offline WDH

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 08:42:34 PM »
The Boss is on the money  8)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Slab Slicer

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Re: Can Red Oak and Black Jack Oak cross pollenate? If so what is the result?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 09:04:15 PM »
So black oak it is.  :) Or is Jeff the boss? Not really sure.  Now it's time to pick up some sort of tree ID guide. Any suggestions?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help.  smiley_thumbsup
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18", Stihl MS180c-18". 2011 Toyota Tacoma, Ringo 12' trailer w/ folding rear gate, Iron & Oak 22 ton splitter.

Chuck


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