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Author Topic: sand in water line  (Read 1095 times)

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Offline sbishop

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sand in water line
« on: November 30, 2012, 10:27:48 AM »
hi guys,
Now that the is closed up for the winter, i'm already planning next years projects and one of them is to reduce sand in my water line. My water for the cabin is from a spring that comes out of side hill about 180ft above the cabin. I have 1000ft of 1" pipe running downhill, lots of pressure. When i leave the cabin, i'll leave the water trickly out of garden hose so the water stays fresh but the next time when i arrive if I open a tap wide open approx. 30seconds after i'll get brown sandy water for about 45sec-1min then all is good. i'm thinking sand is accumulating in the low areas of my pipe. The pipe is mostly downhill but there is 2 areas where the pipe is sitting in a dip. any suggestions on how i can keep the sand out besides using a filter? right now i have the water going into the bottom of a 45gallon barrel and my outlet is approx 6" from the bottom of the barrel.

my plans are so far is connect up another spring about 20ft away from the current one just to have more water. what i was thinking is to have 2 barrels go into one....feed into the bottom of each barrel. isn't sand heavier than water?

thanks for any suggestions!
sbishop

Offline muddstopper

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2012, 11:11:58 AM »
It could be sand accumilating in the low areas of the pipe. Another guess is that when you open the water line wide open, the pipe could be sucking sand into the pipe at the source. With 180ft of head, you probably have around 80psi of pressure. This also means you have about 80lbs of suction, if left flowing unrestricted. This can easily suck in sand and debris at the intake point and result in muddy water coming out of the pipe. Fast moving water thru the pipe can also create friction that could be scrubbing the inside of the pipe as the water flows thru. This could also result in muddy water from the scum that accumilates on the inside walls of the pipe. I suggest that you raise the pipe off the bottom of the spring as far as possible, maybe dam the spring up some to raise the water level if you can. Also consider adding some type of screen or filter at the pipes intake point to help reduce any debris from enter the pipe.

One other suggestion  is to add a reservoir at or near the spring. You would plumb the spring into the reservoir and then from the reservoir to your house. You wouldnt see any noticeable pressure loss and the reservior would provide someplace for any sand and sediment to settle out before flowing thru your supply line

Offline sbishop

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2012, 03:37:03 PM »
i'm pretty confident that sand is accumulating in the low stops. When i leave the cabin for a period of time i'll leave the water trickle from a garden hose....when i arrive back at the cabin lets say 2 weeks later...when using the water...i'll end up getting muddy/sandy water inside the cabin. so from experience now i'll would open up the garden hose and in about 30 seconds i would get muddy/sandy water for maybe 45sec to a minute...after that its clear and i don't have that issue until the next visit.

i'm thinking if i had an extra barrel it would let the sand settle even more. Would i loose pressure if had a sealed barrel by the camp instead at the head of the spring?


Offline beenthere

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2012, 04:54:29 PM »
Quote
now i'll would open up
Not sure which is the extra word here, but maybe remove the dips that you think are collecting sand.

Also, might be you could leave more of a stream running while gone. If it's a spring, shutting the line isn't really saving any water as I'd think it just continues to flow.

In addition, when you think the system is running clear, draw a glass of water and see if there is suspended sand swirling around.

Quote
right now i have the water going into the bottom of a 45gallon barrel
Sometimes fine sand will take time to settle out, and it also may be that opening up the flow stirs sand up from the bottom of the barrel where it had a chance to settle out when you were gone. Maybe have the water going into the barrel a bit higher up so it has less chance to stir up the sand. Some trial and error of different setups might help solve the problem.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 05:11:09 PM »
I could be wrong but I think on this very  forum somebody had the same problem several years ago .It seems to me they placed a barrel maybe several in the flow stream and dumped in low and discharged high so the sand would sink to the bottom of the barrel .I think  they used plastic barrels buried .

Yeah a spring is a spring and more than likely like most it's the coolest clearest sweetest tasting water you can find .Often times it's actually rather soft water too depending .My grandmother had spring water on the farm and I still remember the taste of it .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 05:13:10 PM »
 :D I'm a slow typer somebody beat me to the punch on the barrel .

Offline Ianab

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 05:29:31 PM »
I bet that silt is in the spring water all the time.

By leaving the water trickling it simply gets a chance to settle out as the water in the pipe is barely moving for 2 weeks, but new water, and silt is still slowly being bought in. So then you do get some collecting, as you suspect, in the low points. When you open the tap and get full flow it just flushes it out, but it's 2 weeks worth of silt in 45 secs, so it obvious. I doubt there is any permanent build up.  You are getting that same silt all the time, just it's so diluted you don't see it (and it's harmless)

Now if you put a settling chamber that would probably catch a lot of it. I'd put a valve on the bottom, so you can flush out the settling drum from time to time.

Or just remember to flush the system  for a minute before use.

Ian
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Offline sbishop

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 06:46:14 PM »
beenthere...it should read "I" instead of "i'll"


Offline sbishop

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2012, 06:51:23 PM »
Ian, you are right, i know what to do now everytime i go...just open up the tap for a few minutes and all is good.

I can't get rid of my low area's....its just the way the land is....plus where my cabin is ...when the pipe arrives to it...there is approx 15ft climb to the cabin.

I totally forgot to mention why this bothers me. On my hot water line i have a water filter to keep small sediment out of the on demand hot water heater....so what was happening is i would get to the cabin and forgot to run water outside...next thing i know the muddy/sandy water is in the pipes to the camp...and i would ruin a water filter each time.....but now i know...HAHAH

i think my best bet or trial would be to setup a few 45 gallons tanks and let the sand settle first before entering my water line...i'm sure i saw somewhere on the internet where someone had the same problem and they install a "T" in low areas to let sand settle there...then open up a tap there and out comes the sand but i can't the website anymore! ::)

Offline Ianab

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2012, 08:44:02 PM »
The sand trap will probably help your water filter last longer too, by trapping some sediment during the normal use times.

Like you say, if you accidentally draw hot water first, then you get 2 weeks worth of crud into the filter as IT clears the line for you...

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline sbishop

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Re: sand in water line
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 08:58:05 PM »
If i had more water, i would run my garden hose more instead of a trickle....another reason why i want to connect the other spring.

i'll update this thread next May   ;)


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