The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems






Author Topic: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?  (Read 1664 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mach William

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« on: December 16, 2012, 12:39:40 PM »
I have the opportunity to pick up bulk quantities of red and white oak rough sawn.  This homeowner had the stock proffessionally milled then stickerd it in a storage container  1996-present day.  What are the consequences of this type of seasoned lumber and what is the market price for white oak and the market price for red oak of this nature.  bf of course.  Thank you gentlemen for you time and input.  Be well

Offline Mach William

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 12:57:56 PM »
The gentleman doesn't know the grade.  If anyone has any insight into inexpensive storage solutions I am open to suggestions.  I can't thank you enough.

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2776
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 01:32:50 PM »
The quality of the wood is the key.  What grade, what thickness, how much stain, checking, etc.  also, will the wood need to be dried to 7% MC?  There are too many unanswered questions to give you an answer.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline tyb525

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3368
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Eastern Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • Always learning.
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 03:26:06 PM »
Being cut in '96, the wood is most likely as dry as it is going to get without kiln drying. Depending on your location, 10-14% MC.

There are no real "consequences" of air drying. In fact it is better than kiln drying, as long as there aren't bugs in it.

Many woodworkers get scared when they see air-dried lumber that hasn't been kiln dried, so in order to sell it you might need to have it kiln dried to kill any bugs, and dry it down to 7% (even though that is unnecessary if they store it in their shop where it will absorb moisture anyways...) You probably won't be able to get the same price for air-dried as you would for kiln-dried.

I would look all the lumber over and make sure there aren't lots of bugs in it, and check the moisture content. Make sure there is no mold, and the lumber isn't checked, cracked, or warped excessively.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Offline learner

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Palestine Texas
  • Gender: Male
  • Learning and passing on what I know.
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 04:01:10 PM »
Wellcome to the forum Mach William.  Before the kiln, All wood was air dryed.  As tyb525 says though, you will want to look it all over carefully.  Storage is fairly easy.  Just keep it dry and out of the sun.  You can do that by just making sure it's covered and up off the ground.
As for what it might be worth, well we would need to know where you are located to even begin offering advice in that area.  People think the stock market is bad, but pricing different woods is more difficult!  Your area, the demand  and markets all influence what you can get for different woods.  People adding additions to their homes may not care if it has been kiln dried as long as it meets building codes.  The list goes on for determining what you might be able to get for it.  You might even find people that WANT Naturally dried wood.  I'm sure I've introduced more questions than given you answers and I'm sorry for that.  But the better prepared you are the better off you'll be in the long run.
WoodMizer LT40 Super Hydraulic, MF-300 FEL, Nissan Enduro 60 forklift, 2 Monkey Wards Power Kraft Radial arm saws, Rockwell series 22-200 planer, Prentiss 210 loader

Offline metalspinner

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
  • Location: Maryville, TN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 08:23:34 AM »
I would be pessimistic about the wood with how you descibed its storage. Also, not knowing its grade I would assume its "mill run."  That means every board from the log is in the pile - both good and bad. And there are plenty more "bad" logs than "good" logs out there.

Lumber needs good airflow to dry properly with as little drying defect as possible. Stacked lumber in a storage container is not going to get good airflow. I would suspect that there is lots of mold on the lumber from its initial drying stages years ago.

How was it stickered? Are the sticks lined up perfectly vertically? 24" centers or less? Are all the stickers the same thickness?   Is it weighted on top? The answers to these questions will determine the quality of the lumber.

Not knowing the answers to these questions, I would offer no more than the going sawing charges for your area or less.  Price could change as the wood is examined. You could just have a container full of kindling. :-\

I am still shocked each time I dismantle a stack of my lumber at the amount of loss in the boards.  Most of this loss is from defects that were in the log but really showed itself after air drying.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10261
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 09:20:49 AM »
If it isn't all worm eaten and rotten you'd be surprised how you can take an ugly duckling of a board and turn it into a swan .

Fact just last week I did so with a chunk of air dried white oak which I made a coat rack for a wife of my friend .It's just like mining for gold because until it makes a trip through a planer unless you have Superman x-ray eyes you can't tell whats in there .

Offline learner

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Palestine Texas
  • Gender: Male
  • Learning and passing on what I know.
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 09:52:09 PM »
Al_Smith is right.  Many dried boards get more beautiful after planing.   :D Even the least desirable of woods looks better when planed.
WoodMizer LT40 Super Hydraulic, MF-300 FEL, Nissan Enduro 60 forklift, 2 Monkey Wards Power Kraft Radial arm saws, Rockwell series 22-200 planer, Prentiss 210 loader

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29527
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 10:05:03 PM »
I don't like splits, cracks, checks, or warp.  No planer will help those defects. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline tyb525

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3368
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Eastern Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • Always learning.
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 11:03:48 PM »
Unless you're going for the "distressed" look like those cabinets someone posted awhile back :D

Warp can sometimes be dealt with if you need shorter boards and have a jointer, others WDH is right. Those defects make the boards pretty useless for anything but firewood.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29527
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 11:09:38 PM »
Yes, you can flatten a short warped board with a jointer and a planer if you are using it for secondary wood like a drawer back or such.  I would not put it in the front row, though  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Tree Feller

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Tyler, Texas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 10:30:25 PM »
As stated, the lumber would have to be inspected and the quality determined but if it's in good shape; ie, no major cracks, warpage, mold, stain, bugs, etc., around $1.00 per bf would be the maximum I would pay for mill run, flat-sawn, 4/4 Oak lumber.

Ugly boards can indeed yield some beautiful lumber after jointing and planing but that takes time, effort and money so figure that into your cost. In addition, the lumber may require further drying to be suitable for indoor furniture building. That also requires time, effort and money.

Air dried only lumber was indeed used for centuries to build furniture but as Doc pointed out in another thread, the homes back then were not air conditioned and the average relative humidity was much higher than it is in a modern home. Also, if you have seen much "Period Furniture", you know that most of what has survived to today exhibits cracks and warping caused by wood movement related to improper drying...and that's just the pieces that have survived. Most of that furniture didn't make it. There is a reason museum furniture is kept in a climate-controlled environment.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Offline drobertson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8013
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Missouri
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 09:42:22 AM »
Mach welcome to the forum and Merry Christmas!  Sounds like you have an interesting decision to make. There is really no way to say what the market value is until it has been inspected.  You might try and find a certified inspector and have it inspected.  Or take a big gamble.  Need to see some pictures to even give any advice at all.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline 5quarter

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1678
  • Location: Springfield NE
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Blue Harbor Refinishing
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 11:06:34 AM »
I am still shocked each time I dismantle a stack of my lumber at the amount of loss in the boards.  Most of this loss is from defects that were in the log but really showed itself after air drying.

I can feel your pain. Some of the most interesting lumber is found in some of the nastiest logs, which are always at a greater risk of loss and defect while drying. In the beginning, I was heartbroken to find that all my best (favorite) boards wound up as firewood or nearly so. Nowadays, I cut all my "character lumber" a little thicker, dry more evenly and with sufficient weight, expecting that I will lose it all anyway. so when I have favorable results, I am overjoyed.  ;)

If you have some warped boards that are under 10%MC and you can true them up, I see no reason why you can't use them in front row applications (assuming both sides are planed/sanded/finished evenly). If a board isn't stable, it will show up pretty quick in the planing/jointing process. I've had some boards that have bowed when jointing one side, then bowed the other way when jointing the other side. my woodstove usually puts the kibosh on those misbehavers.  ;)


Mach William...all good advise so far. No way to tell what its worth without inspecting it. If there was no airflow from the beginning, I wouldn't expect there to be much left to work with. a little airflow; perhaps most dried fine. You'll just have to go through it and see for yourself.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Offline Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39070
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: Red and White Oak seasoned by home owner?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 05:36:43 PM »
Hello    Mach William, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Have you had an opportunity to actually look at the lumber yet?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Home Owner chainsaws???

Started by rbhunter on Chainsaws

39 Replies
19290 Views
Last post December 13, 2010, 07:13:05 AM
by Al_Smith
xx
Owner dying - two black labs need a new home!

Started by scsmith42 on General Board

10 Replies
1810 Views
Last post January 31, 2007, 09:27:36 AM
by scsmith42
xx
Harry Home owner Bio-Mizer Sawdust Dryer.

Started by Jeff on Alternative methods and solutions

137 Replies
32625 Views
Last post December 07, 2008, 09:41:49 PM
by Reddog
xx
Moving logs for enviromentally minded city home owner

Started by Ironwood on Urban and Community Forestry

7 Replies
3685 Views
Last post April 15, 2008, 08:51:51 AM
by Ironwood
 


Powered by EzPortal