New to the Board and to Milling, Eager to Learn!

[JoeyLowe]

Greetings all!  I just discovered this forum via a Google search while looking for info on sawmills in general.  For those interested, here is my story.  I'm a custom furniture maker located in east Texas.  My father-in-law recently announced that he planned to retire and take up a part time vocation.  One thing led to another, and he and I decided to buy a portable sawmill to mill some of our own lumber and maybe others.  My initial goal was to give him something to do and to give my two teen-aged sons a lesson in hard work along with the opportunity to work with their grandfather and I. 8)  So, I bought a Woodmizer LT40 with the super hydraulics and 42 HP diesel.

Now I'm not totally green when it comes to milling trees and my father-in-law spent his youth working in a sawmill operation, so we both believe that this venture is well within our capabilities.  However, a friend of a friend referred me to another who would like for me to mill some pine into 4x4 posts in a couple of weeks.  Of course, now I have the jitters.  Any suggestions (including running away) would be most appreciated.

Just for info, the trees were felled as part of a thinning operation and have been centrally staged.  I'm not sure if they have been cleaned but I do know that the average size is 16' long and 8-12" in diameter.  My extended family in Alabama owns several sawmills and they all advised me to have it trucked to the paper mill, but I don't think this fella has more than 20-30 logs.

[Frank_Pender]

Welcome, Joey.   I think you will enjoy the site.  I sure have.  My learning curve has taken a turn for the better since my arrival.  Good luck to you and the family in your venture, as well as your first custome cutting job.  It sounds like a terrific idea for your children to learn the value of hard work and the joys of being with family.   I congratulate you on that, as I did the same thing with my two boys, working in the woods cutting firewood to make the ends of lifes struggles meet.  It will pay you and them high dividens along the jouney of life and memories.

[CHARLIE]

A big WELCOME to the forum Joey!  You'll like the friendly atmosphere and the fine people here. I'm not a forester or sawyer, but they tolerate me right well and I've learned a lot.  There's a bunch of band mill sawyers on this site, so I'm sure you're going to get some advice pretty soon.  If you use your sons for offloading, they're going to find out about hard work. Be sure to feed them each a full can of peas for their 15 minute lunch break (There's a story there somewhere).;D  

[woodmills1]

welcome joey.  i tend to cut whatever the customer wants, but for small stuff i tried to get paid by the hour.  too much handling and waste, like only one 4x4 per small log.  and don't forget to make that one full can of brand name peas. :D

[Tom]

Hey Joey, welcome to the forestry forum.

I have found that a big meal in the middle of the day generally leads to a nap under a tree big enough to create a black spot.
A can of peas makes for a lean, mean , off-loading machine especially when compensation is on piece work rather than by-the-hour. :D  Just don't readily give up your sawyer position to quiet big mouths.  That off-loading is one heck of a job.

Cutting 4x4's can be a breeze if you are doing it for fence post.  The reason is that most folks don't care if their posts have some wane so you can get usable pieces from logs that otherwise would be thrown away.

You can also split logs and get multiple posts per cut. this can allow the stress to cause crooked posts but, here again, many folks don't care as long as it will hold up the wire.  Square an 8x8, half it, turn it 90 degress, half it again and "Voila", 4 posts.    Sometimes you can skin 9 posts from a 12x12 if the outside 4 don't have too much wane.  Ah the beauty of a horizontal band mill.

You can't always do this, so it is advisable to clear it with your customer.  I just finished a job cutting 8x8's that will be holding up a Barn and they must be and remain to be straight.  When that happens, Boxing the heart is the best way to get straight posts. Unfortunately it also limits the number of posts you can get from a log.

I love this advice thing.......

The most critical part of working a sawmill with kids is to have it remain fun.  I lost my boys because they became disenchanted.  A lot of bragging is in order....laughing, joking and making them aware of the relationship of number of pieces relative to amount of dollars. I have had high-school boys work me to death when they reallized that they were earning 48 cents for every 16 foot 2x6 they removed from the mill.  When I took a break they were hard at work preparing for when I came back and if my break took too long they would chide me.  It also caused them to learn how to figure board feet and other nifty things about the business without my being forceful.

Teenagers make good help when they "want" to be there.  Believe it or not, I still have help from 10 years ago show up on my door step to say hello, show off new wives and kids and tell me what a good time they had. Just be carefull of being too critical of your own.  I think we expect too much from our own kids sometimes and run them away.

[JoeyLowe]

Thanks for the warm welcome from everyone.  I'm especially curious about the can of peas now. I really appreciate the cutting advice on the 4 bys too!

[JoeyLowe]

I spoke with the timber owner again today and the 4 x 4's are to be used for fence posts.  He also mentioned that he wanted to work a trade with me. (i. e. some of the lumber for my time)  That being said, and because I can always use extra fence posts, what is a good exchange rate.  Seems the Woodmizer folks indicated that 25-30 cents a BF is the going rate for sawing.  Do I just do the math and match it up or is there some other method that is preferred?  Andy while, I'm thinking about it, if I ever run into a situation where I want to get rid of lumber that I've acquired, what's the best of doing this?  Do I call on local lumber yards or use a broker or again, what?  I can't imagine doing this too much for business, but you can't ever tell.  The way my boys are talking, they are already spending money they haven't even earned yet. :D

[Tom]

What I do when I cut on shares ( seldom do and don't like to) I do the math and equate the sawing charge to the lumber produced plus 2-5 cents because I have to store the wood waiting for a market.  Customers don't generally take into account that you may have to sit on the wood and find a customer too, which is a job in itself.

You ultimately have to do what feels right for the job.  I have customers that I favor and customers who would just as soon use someone else as me.  I try to reward loyalty but make sure they understand what I'm doing.

About selling wood.

If you produce a lot regularly then a broker may be interested.  Usually my market is Farmers and hobbiest woodworkers and the contacts are made through customers by word of mouth.  Check out the Knowledge Base, a link on the left side of your screen, there are some proven ideas there.

Good luck

[Frank_Pender]

  Joey, I simply run on a 50/50 basis of board footage with all of my customers, no matter the species.  I always make sure they get the number of pieces they need for their job, first.  there after I work for my share and split what is  left.  the bes of luck to you in the venture of making sawdust. 8) 8)

[CHARLIE]

Joey....so ya wanna know about the peas.......................... ;D
Just do a search on Working with Tom for the complete unabridged edition. It's dated 6/30/01 at 6:37pm. ;)
By the way, I'm Tom's little brother and I'm allowed to say anything about him that I want, in any manner that I choose and what's more, it doesn't have to be 100% true as long as it's close to the truth and makes a good story. :D :D :D

[Papa Dave]

Joey, glad you are joining us on the forum. I think it is a great idea that you have in trying to work with your sons.  It sure needs to be done more often today.

By the way, one thing you will soon find out is that most folks here are not shy about giving their opinions. They usually try to do it in a positive and helpful way.  It is a great place and the folks here are really great.

ps.  Please pass the grits. ;D

[JoeyLowe]

Well so far I can't complain.  This has to be one the best sites on the net.  I really appreciate everyone's helpfulness and thoughtfulness. Funny thing is twenty years ago, my mom's family wanted me to go into the logging business with them.  I ran (very fast).  Instead, I joined the Marines for a couple of hitches and then ended up as a policeman in DFW.  After an injury, I launched my own business (furniture making) and believe it or not it looks like I'm coming full circle.  I was speaking with Mom last night and she said to me, "I bet your great grandfather and grandfather are turning over in their graves now"  Guess it just goes to show that the nut never falls far from the tree.  So expect a lot of questions from me, some semi-intelligent , others downright ignorant.  Oh and ya'll permitting, I may even toss a joke or two your way.  Thanks again for the hospitality.

[timberbeast]

Welcome,  Joey!  Great that you got the kids interested and working,  it's a good experience!  I wouldn't trade my work in the woods or at the mill for anything.
I think you'll find that selling your "excess"  wood will be a whole other job,  and not one that will make you rich.  A few ads in the paper should get you some folks coming to look,  then word of mouth should start going around.  You'll probably have folks calling you,  like:  "Can you get me 30 2x6x6's"?  or "Have any birdseye maple"?  stuff.  You can also set up a website through Jeff B.,  which will get hits.  Good luck!!!

[DanG]

Welcome to the board board, Joey1

I have an opinion that I will be glad to share, as soon as I figger out what it is.

[Bud Man]

Joey,  Looks like good practice for everyone concerned---Go for the hourly wage and make the boys create a tickler file for five years from now when it'll need more thinning.                   You need to SHY-AWAY from those Alabama pulpers cause you a   WMLT40HDD42 man now , not a pulpwood broker !!!   GO GET UM

[Weekend_Sawyer]

      8) 8) 8) Congratulations on the annaversary of your first post!

Looks like you have come a long way.

[Bibbyman]

In case you came into this thread and wondering why the congradulations,  Joey was a topic of an artical in the Timberline trade paper.

Here is the link to the artical on their web site.

Texan's Sawmill Business Starts Fast First Year

[Ron Scott]

Ouite an entrepreneur!   Well done!