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Author Topic: king post to split tie beam construction  (Read 3963 times)

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Offline boblee

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king post to split tie beam construction
« on: February 19, 2013, 02:10:34 PM »
Hi everyone 55yr. old green horn here 
I'm wanting to build a 31x31 garage ( existing slab for a quanset hut wife didn't approve )  in the style of the Fox Maple workshop building at Brownfield Me.
A couple of weeks ago I spoke with Steve Chapell on the phone he was very helpful but I didn't get all my questions answered and haven't been able to reach him again lately.
I bought his book as he recommended and I'm glad I did I also bought several by Sobon,Benson,Elliot and others .

I would like to use Steve Chapell's plan of the workshop building he describes in his FM WORKSHOP booklet available on his site .
It uses a 32' cleaspan kingpost design that allows use of the upstairs without having to have support post on the ground floor .

I can understand most of the joinery except the kingpost to split tiebeam joinery.

I haven't been able to talk to Steve about it or find much information on it in any of my books .
Everything I've seen so far has been kingpost & one piece tie beam joints but nothing for a two piece tie beam

Would anybody have a diagram of how a kingpost &  split-tiebeams  like his goes together?

And by the way do you guys think I'm to old to be trying this on my own ?

Thanks
Bob 

Offline bigshow

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 02:13:59 PM »
hmmm, I wonder if its something like this:



as far as age? LOL 55 is nothing.  My dad is 65 and has been going full tilt with me for almost 3 years.
I never try anything, I just do it.

Offline boblee

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 02:43:37 PM »
Hi bigshow that looks like it  except that the spline is on top on Steve's design  do you have the details of this joinery?

Offline bigshow

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 02:55:18 PM »
Honestly, I'm just waiting for Jim to hop in.  Its his pic after all!
I never try anything, I just do it.

Offline boblee

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 03:00:37 PM »
Ok I'll wait too !
 Is it permissible to post a pic of Steve's design or would that be against forum rules?
His design is freely available on his site do you think he would mind?  I won't do it till I hear from Jim or Steve

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 04:12:12 PM »
Hello Boblee,

Jim will probably provide a excellent diagram or photo of the style you are speaking of.  55 is not old, at least I don't think so, and yes, with guidance, one person can build this, (rigging is required.)  I will say of all the King post, Queen post and other members of the family of Gable truss assemblies, the split-tie beam is more challenging.  I have seen the splines on both top and bottom.  I would fully house the split tie beam and not use a diminished haunch since this is your first one.  If you follow Steve's plans to a tee, you can probably get building department approval, otherwise a PE or architect with timber framing experience is advised.  The obliques in the diagram for post #2 appear to be in wrong direction?

Good luck and welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 05:34:08 PM »
Here is a picture of Steve's workshop and his king post with two tie beams:



If you go to my gallery and click on Fox Maple school pictures you can see lots of shots of the king post in the Library building and the workshop building.
I did a lot of research when I was there.
Here is a direct link to my album:
http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=970

And 55 is not too old. We sold some tools recently to a fellow who is just starting timber framing at age 72.

The timbers in the drawing in post #2 are struts going from the king post up to the rafters.

The key to a two piece tie beam is doing the diminished haunch right and having some king post hanging down to allow enough wood beyond the spline joint.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline timberwrestler

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 05:45:21 PM »
I certainly don't think you're too old, but my gut/intuition/limited experience leads me to believe that a 32' split bottom chord king post truss with a floor load is quite sketchy.  I'd have someone that knows what they're doing review it. 

Offline boblee

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 06:41:38 PM »
Thanks guys I appreciate it .

This design that I want to use has already been used by Steve Chappell quite successfully since 1995. 
He told me if I remember right that his workshop upstairs floor could be loaded to 100 lbs. psi live load.

I want to build it like Steve's workshop as much as possible as he said that it was designed to be the maximum span and the most  most efficient use of material and labor.

This design only uses 3 Bents the only Bent that I'm even concerned about would be the middle one.

The 2 end ones will probably have support post under the tie beam as they wont interfere with the garage floor space downstairs .
There will definitely be posts in the front on both sides of the 12' garage door .

The only other design change will probably a 12/12 pitch to give me more room upstairs and less snow buildup on the metal roof .
 
Maybe I should use heavier timbers in that middle bent especially the king post and tie beams. I don't expect to use it for much other than lofting boats or light boat building .
Steve said that I should build it with the intent on storing stuff up there as it always happens that way anyway .

 I'm hoping to take one of Steve's courses this spring at least the one day design course and maybe the beginners one if funds permit.

I'll keep everyone posted if my garage actually gets off the ground.

 It's a big undertaking for one man, but 20 years ago I started building my own log cabin alone and help came along the way just when I needed it.
So that will probably happen again curiosity has a way of drawing in a lot of help .( if you build it they will come and check it out right ? )
And resourcefulness always helps .

I definitely want to get this right the first time because with my house I made some mistakes I wish I Hadn't  and I want to avoid that this time .

Bob
   

Offline boblee

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 06:57:52 PM »
Thanks Jim
Great pictures that explains it pictures are worth thousands of words.
As I understand this joint there is a dovetail on the bottom of each tenon on each tie beam that go into mortises with reduced haunches in the kingpost which are then wedged together on the top of the tenons .
Does that sound right ?

How long would those tenons be ?

Bob

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 07:24:10 PM »
Welcome to the Forum!

What kind of boats do you build? I've always wanted to build a wooden boat, but have never had the desire to use one. :D

I have been warned by at least two of my instructors to stay as far away from Elliot's book as possible. I've never looked at it, but from what they say it is a guide of what not to do.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline boblee

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Re: king post to split tie beam construction
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 08:32:00 PM »
Hi Dave
 I've always wanted to build a glued lapstrake whitehall rowing boat or dinghy but I'm interested in all kinds of wooden boats but prefer lapstrake .
As far as using them I don't like canoes to tippy .

I like the challenge of taking the bunch of numbers in the table of offsets and turning them into a boat .
I used to build strip canoes and built a 10 ft strip row boat once  .
I've built them in my basement and it's a stuggle to get them out .

I need a garage just to build boats it's a hobby my girls are in college now.
We have an empty nest and a lot more time on our hands I might try to get my wife involved .

I'm also interested in stitch and glue boats and would like to enlarge my homemade cnc router to cut out the panels .
I have all the materials to make it bigger but no room to do it so i need a garage.
 
The books I have by Elliot were two of his old ones the planning book and the timber house raising book.
 I got that one to see more of the process of a house raising .

 I don't know enough about the process yet to judge whats good or bad, but I do like the newer books by Chappell ,Sobon, Benson (the one about joints) there are others I'd like to buy but are a little pricey.



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