Lifting the Head

[Happycamper]

Don't have the mill set up yet but tried to lift the head by hand and it's very heavy. Nothing binding ,lubed the mast w/ATF etc but still difficult to work so installed a pulley system to raise it up. Can raise it with one hand now.
                                    Jim

 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I'll bet you're a Happy Camper now.  Good idea. 

[rimshot]

My LT 10 has a head & mast that lifts and goes down only with great force also.  I wish I understood exactly what steps you took to make it so easy to move up or down. 

Looking at your picture I nowunderstand.  But there must be a permanent solution for that hard to move head system in my LT10

rimshot

[Happycamper]

I guess when I buy a mill without assistance I'll have to do the work. I now understand why the very small water tank on the LT10 1 gallon water 10 lbs. 5 gallons water #'s which would be a lot more weight to raise. Just think I will get a rest from time to time refilling the water. All is good.
                                  Jim

[francismilker]

I struggle with mine as well.  I do see it get easier from time to time but there's lots of resistance to it going up and down as well.  (especially forcing it down to low cutting levels off the deck from about 6" and lower.)  Does anyone know if WM might be looking at re-engineering the design?  The air assist lift doesn't seem to have much pump to it. 

Another question:  Can anyone explain to me the mechanical principal in which the air assist cylinder works?  I'm not grasping it.  I've actually toyed around with the idea of adding a mechanical crank mechanism to mine to raise it.  If the cylinder is removed and out of the picture, it ought to fall by gravity pretty easy right?  Then, with a raising mechanism one could crank it up. 

What about installing a hand boat winch to the head?  Would'nt that work?

[dgdrls]

As I read this topic I am trying to recall just how difficult it was to raise the head on my 10.
I think if it takes some home engineered add on to make it acceptable there is a larger problem
that WM should be made aware of and an update made available.

I recall my set up being somewhat sticky, but it never needed a pulley system to make it work.
Seems if it was made easier to lift it would be harder to push down and vice-versa.
maybe not,

In any event I would be called WM tech,  I bet they will help.

Good luck
DGDrls

[Sixacresand]

I just replaced an assist cylinder because with a hand crank lift I made, it was still to hard to raise.  I still use the crank to raise it.  It is easier on my back.   

 

[Happycamper]

An inexpensive hand crank boat winch is a good idea and that is what I had planned to do if the pulley system didn't work. Also for less than a $100.00 a 12 volt atv winch could be installed. Actuall I feel WM should correct this and I am looking into that this week. I have 30 days to return the mill but don't really want to do that but Norwood looks good too.
                                       Jim

[Chuck White]

I agree, talk to the Wood-Mizer reps, they'll have a solution to the problem, I'm sure.

[rimshot]

I agree, talk to the Wood-Mizer reps, they'll have a solution to the problem, I'm sure.

==============

WM tech support is the finest but unfortunately I don't believe they can provide a fix for this strange characteristic.  I was really tired after I recently took delivery of my brand new LT10.  I had quite a few cedar logs waiting and the first few days of sawing and my back was used up.   I'm not glad the rest of you have  this difficulty but thanks to this thread I am now convinced we will just have to get used to this unfortunate situation.  This is the first time on this board that I have received comments from others with LT10's that these mastheads are just plain difficult to raise /lower.  If that is the worst thing to accept about our lt10's the rest of the unit is  so perfect I will still give it an "a".  I can live with it

I have contacted the support several times and they bend over backwards as usual to try and help but no solutions have been provided.  They sent me new air spring cylinders but I did not use them and so sent them back.  The only thing that helps me a tiny bit is to keep the uprights clean and coated with atf. I did not go to the effort of replacing the air cylinders because I am convinced the brand new cylinders supplied with my new machine were not defective.

rimshot

[Happycamper]

After 30 years making these machines and they work like this is difficult to understand. I have not even run the engine yet as its sitting inside not on the track waiting for better weather. The uprights are clean, paint on (never used) and have ATF on them and they are not binding anywhere. There seems to be many of us with this same problem.
                                  Jim

[hamish]

I sure hope Woodmizer gives you all a solution, as its apparent its and issue with many owners on this forum, and most likely with many other owners not on these venues.

It is a problem and should be addressed.

I have two colleauges that have LT10's, I cannot imagine wrestling with that millhead every cut, I get tired enough just milling for the day, with my "other" orange mill.

[francismilker]

Just sent in a request for service department to look into head lifting issues.  Will report back what I find out!

[JERICO]

I do not own a mill, but have been looking at the LT10, LT15, etc.
I wondered about the 'air assist' height adjustment being basically "you lift the head and lower the head in mid-air". 
I have seen a few mills with a wheel you crank by hand to adjust height.  I think I would at least want the mechanical advantage of gears or pulley system to raise and lower the head if it's manual.

The Woodland Mills HM 126 has a crank handle up high on the operator side, almost out of ergonomic reach, but it's better than hossing the head around, imo.

[francismilker]

Fast WM service!  I sent in a request for service this morning and received an email from WM a few minutes ago.  They are sending out a new assist assembly to me today.  Now that, my friends, is getting on the ball!

[Happycamper]

francismilker,
  Is your mill brand new also?
                              Jim

[rimshot]

Fast WM service!  I sent in a request for service this morning and received an email from WM a few minutes ago.  They are sending out a new assist assembly to me today.  Now that, my friends, is getting on the ball!

=====================

You gotta love WM support.  Please let us know when you get the assembly changed over and if it really made a difference.  I'm wondering just what this assembly includes.


thanks for your report, maybe there is hope.

rimshot

[francismilker]

francismilker,
  Is your mill brand new also?
                              Jim

Yes, I've had it about 4 months now.  It has acted this way since I got it.  I've complained about it a little but was just thinking it was a characteristic of a manual mill and that I was just too soft and wimpy!  After seeing a lot of correspondence on FF, I decided it wasn't just me and I needed to do something.  It actually got a little easier a few weeks back when the topic of using atf came up.  However, it got worse than it was before after just a few days.  I've done farm work, hauled hay, milked cows, and worked in the electrical provider industry most of my adult life so I've seen hard work.  After a day of raising/lowering the mill, I feel like I've just hauled a few loads of square bales and can really feel it the next day. 

I never expected the air assist to launch it up towards the sky when I unlocked the head, but I figured it would be a big help.  What clued me in to there being problems is when I started having to work just as hard getting it to lower the last few inches.  I weigh in at about 225lbs and have to lean down on it pretty hard to lower it.  I'm excited about getting the new assembly in and will report back as soon as I get it installed.  I'm off work next week and have several logs to saw so hopefully things will come together.

[francismilker]

I agree, talk to the Wood-Mizer reps, they'll have a solution to the problem, I'm sure.

==============

WM tech support is the finest but unfortunately I don't believe they can provide a fix for this strange characteristic.  I was really tired after I recently took delivery of my brand new LT10.  I had quite a few cedar logs waiting and the first few days of sawing and my back was used up.   I'm not glad the rest of you have  this difficulty but thanks to this thread I am now convinced we will just have to get used to this unfortunate situation.  This is the first time on this board that I have received comments from others with LT10's that these mastheads are just plain difficult to raise /lower.  If that is the worst thing to accept about our lt10's the rest of the unit is  so perfect I will still give it an "a".  I can live with it

I have contacted the support several times and they bend over backwards as usual to try and help but no solutions have been provided.  They sent me new air spring cylinders but I did not use them and so sent them back.  The only thing that helps me a tiny bit is to keep the uprights clean and coated with atf. I did not go to the effort of replacing the air cylinders because I am convinced the brand new cylinders supplied with my new machine were not defective.

rimshot

You mention "cylinders" as in plural.  I only see one cylinder on mine with a dual pulley on the end to connect to both cables.  Am I missing something?  Does one fit inside the other or something?

[Happycamper]

There are two cylinders one is#13 Spring 200Lb.Gas Charged part # 049038
the other is #14 Spring 250 Lb. Gas Charged part # 049039
                                Jim

 

[rimshot]

==============


[/quote]

You mention "cylinders" as in plural.  I only see one cylinder on mine with a dual pulley on the end to connect to both cables.  Am I missing something?  Does one fit inside the other or something?
[/quote]
==========

.  There are actually two cylinders.  Let's see here.  After you take the cover off follow that cable down to the bottom.  Make sure (as I recall) you will want the head unit down to the bottom or is it up to the top.  Better check on that.  Before you do anything else you need to take the tension off those pulleys and that is accomplished by taking the nut off those two eyebolts the cable terminates at.  As you loosen the eyebolt by unscrewing the nut you will allow yourself slack in the pulley line.  Important note***It's a good practise to measure the thread sticking beyond the nut on the eyebolt.  If you do that you should be able to put it back to factory specs after installing the new cylinders.

I will be very surprised if you find replacing those air spring cylinders does the trick but I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.  Do you know what else they will supply to make up this assembly?  I hope I'm wrong but my fear is they have got that problem built right into the design of the LT10 and I don't want to replace stuff needlessly because I am just getting more of the same.  WM deserves our loyalty but they owe us a fix on this one.  We are very interested in your mill.  I hope your situation fixes the problem.

My mill is about 6 weeks old but has no business breaking any body's back.  I am still very happy with WM and have confidence they will eventually find the problem and tend to it.

rimshot

[Happycamper]

Rimshot,
  I sure hope they do. I'm going to go to WM tomorrow and have a talk with them. I really don't want to return this before I even start setting it up and trying it.
                                  Jim

[Happycamper]

Two minutes ago I received an email from WM that they are going to come out to my place Thurs. or Friday and change the cylinders.
                                       Jim

[rimshot]

Two minutes ago I received an email from WM that they are going to come out to my place Thurs. or Friday and change the cylinders.
                                       Jim

===
A coincidence?  I don't think so.  Best of luck Happycamper.  we will be awaiting your report also.

rimshot

[francismilker]

Just installed my new lift assembly.  No luck yet.  It's still hard to raise and even harder to lower.  Mine has to be in a bind somewhere but it's nothing that's jumping out and grabbing me.  I'll keep measuring and looking.  Visited with WM service dept. and they were very helpful over the phone and gave me some things to look at.

[rimshot]

WM has got a great service department but unfotunately we have not received a solution.  So the obvious next question has to be, " What has changed on the LT10 motor head making it so darn hard to move.   We did not get the very first ones off the assembly line.  They all worked before.  What are you doing different?  We have to know because we paid lots of money for one that doesn't hardly worik.  There in lies the answer.

Counting on the good folks at
WM to tend to our problem

rim

[Barney II]

Has there been any solutions to this head problem?  I was going to sell the lt3o and go with the lt 10----I don't think so anymore

[waho]

Another LT 10 with the heavy lifting or lowering problems. Bought in Oct.

[OlJarhead]

I guess when I buy a mill without assistance I'll have to do the work. I now understand why the very small water tank on the LT10 1 gallon water 10 lbs. 5 gallons water #'s which would be a lot more weight to raise. Just think I will get a rest from time to time refilling the water. All is good.
                                  Jim

The water tank isn't on the part of the head that raises and lowers but rather a stand.  I think the small size is because WM didn't anyone would need 8 hrs of water! lol

[OlJarhead]

Mine has never been too difficult to lift.  Sure, it's a little heavy but we just put more oomph into it.  My guess is mine is normal (and it's a few years old now too) but the later models have issues perhaps?

[Happycamper]

No Question about it. The new LT10's do have serious issues with raising AND lowering the head.
                                 Jim

[hamish]

Just take a moment to think of all the "newer" LT10 owners out there that do not use these forums, nor have conversations, or had there hands on a "normal" LT10.  For them there introduction to milling, is DanGit this is hard work, and they aren't talking bout the logs.

They wont know any different.

I tried out an LT10 at a woodshow, expected alot more, ended up buying a Norwood and my 2yr old son can raise and lower the head (takes some effort for him, but he's young).  This past summer tried out a Woodland Mills HM126 at the Saw Expo, nice and slick raising the head on that one also.

Both the Norwood and the Woodlands use mechanical advantage via a dead weight winching system that is as simple as as simple can be.  Which many of you LT10 owners have resorted to.

Them gas-assisted-non-working-lift-scrap-metal-things are .......well simply not working.

The older Lt10's worked, did you hire an olympic weight lifter in your R&D department?

For those of you that have them I wish you the best and don't turn your back on milling, once the sawdust gets in you it just grows on you.

One of you need to return your mill so they can measure and diagnose everything and sort the issue out.

You mill head came pre-assembled and mounted, its not your doing.

[Happycamper]

Hamish,
  I bought a wm because they are in the West 20 miles from where I live. Would have bought a Norwood in a heartbeat had they been represented in the West. I am not unhappy with the mill as such it does ever thing I expected  but it is impossible to raise and lower the head without great difficulty and help. I am still waiting for them to respond to me positively in the near future. Like we know if one person speaks out they are usually speaking for 200 people as many don't speak out about much. This is a known average.
                                                Jim

[francismilker]

All.  As I sit and read these replies daily about these issues I see animosity building.  I think what we see as a problem can be looked at as a possibility if we maintain a positive attitude.

Woodmizer has been around a long time.  They are a very reputable manufacturer.  They have folks on the end of the telephone that are interested  in fixing my problems.  While I don't think I'm the only one with these difficulties, I do know that animosity is not going to fix the problem.  I didn't buy a wm because they were close or it was convenient.  I live a long way from Indiana.  I bought a wm because it's a wm!  I bought a wm because they are the high bar when it comes to comparing mills in my book. I bought a wm because I knew I would be able to call them up and get a lift assembly sent to me in a few days instead of waiting for weeks to get one out of China or Canada.   

I used to ride a motor cycle some and I had a guy tell me once, "There are two kinds of riders.  Those that ride a Harley and those that want to ride a Harley."  I agreed.  If it wasn't true the japanese manufacturers wouldn't have put so much effort into trying to make their bikes look and sound so much like a Harley but with a cheaper price tag. 

I feel the same way about wm mills.  There's two kinds of sawyers, those that use a wm and those that want to use a wm.  No offence meant towards other owners.  Just my opinion here.  There are a lot of good mills out there. 

I don't see wm as covering anything up or trying to hide anything.  Within 48 hours of my first call they sent me an entire lift assembly.  (cables, cylinders, eyebolts, and all)  They didn't try to pass the buck or write it off as a phantom prob.  They put a lot of money's worth in parts in the mail and sent it my way.  I've spent some time on the phone with them and they've walked me through a few measurements to take to ensure the head is level and square.

I've took those measurements and the mill is level.  I've checked and rechecked several times just to make sure. 

I've been in contact via email to a gentleman from the Missouri wm store.  He is going to be coming my general direction in about a month.  My plans are to try and get him to loop through my way so someone from wm can see it, put their hands and eyes on it, and lift/lower it. 

Shipping my mill back to wm is not an option for me.  I've got too much time invested in building my skid and trailer to send it back.  I can make a hand crank lift mechanism to fix it myself a whole faster than I can take the mill apart and ship it back.  It would be a royal pain in the backside to send this mill back. 

I have no problems or ill feelings towards wm regarding this issue.  They are continually working to make their product better and more user friendly.  In the case of the LT-10 lifting system, it's just not working.  Most other  mills of comparible size use some type of handcrank mechanism to raise/lower and wm uses a air assist cylinder.  The idea is genious!  It's brilliant with the concept of letting a saw head float at midstream travel of a shock absorber and to allow for compression/expansion to raise/lower the head with little backstrength. 

Most owners of an older model LT-10 will say they have no issues.  That's great!  I'd like to compare apples to apples and see exactly what changes were institued to the 2012 models.  And, if so, was the tooling jigs for building the carriages changed in any way?  My personal guess is that the mast poles are "tweeked" or "racked" just enough to cause a binding issue.  My mill is new so I can see where the white plastic bushings are rubbing paint off.  It's not an equal rubbing from all sides. 

I have high hopes that when my problems are worked out this info can be shared with other owners to also resolve their issues.  In the meantime, I'm going to do all that I can to work this issue out.  When the problem is resolved, as usual, I'll have one of those "aah haw" moments in life where I think to myself, "man, it was that simple" and learn from it. 

I sawed with a homemade/shop-built mill that I bought from a gentleman a few years ago that worked fairly decent.  The reason(s) I disliked the mill were several issues regarding getting bands to run true on guide rollers and band wheels.  It was the only one of it's kind so there was no network of support to go to when troubles like the one I'm having now arises.  It took the man who made it showing up to my place and spending a little time getting things just perfect to make it run correctly.  Problem was, every time I changed bands I had to spend that same time again adjusting.  With my wm, it's a simple 30 second procedure to change bands without any wrench turning.  That to me is work hours worth of lift probs.  I'll ride this out and see what it leads to.  One thing is for certain, the performance of the little mill warrants lots of drastic measures to get the lift issues worked out. 

I couldn't be happier to have been reinfected with the sawmill virus.  It's addictive and I intend on sawing for many more years.  In time, I'll upgrade to a larger mill if time and MONEY allows me to. 

[rimshot]

Hi Francismilker,

You had some good comments there and as you suggest I think  we have all remained loyal to WoodMizer.  But the bottom line here is  there still seems to be no soloution .  That is the issue to me. While WM, a company I hold in very high esteem keeps cranking out these brand new lt10's, the hard to move head issue has not been fixed.  I remain confident WoodMizer will address the cause (hoping) so the customer and WoodMizer don't have to deal with the effect.    The new lt10 owners continue to wait for the fix that does not seem to be on the horizon

Something is wrong with that picture however in the meantime..

Thats just some of my thoughts and I have appreciated all the other posters thoughts.

rimshot

 

[Happycamper]

I still have the option of RETURNING this mill to wm and buying a Norwood but that is not my interest. This mill works very well and I am happy with it. The raising and lowering of the head NEEDS to be addressed as it is an issue. It ain't animosity my friend it's frustration.
                                        Jim

[Fla._Deadheader]

The first sign of what is happening is, "I can see spots where the paint is rubbing off".
First thing I would do is, stop waiting for WM. It's looking like they have a terrible steel supply and, are hoping to find a way around it. I would take a flap disc on my angle grinder, and work on smoothing out those "spots". It won't take long to see an improvement.

Yeah, I know, "BUT I don't want to have to mess up my WM." Meanwhile, you are waiting and writing about WM being prompt in supplying new parts.

Guys like " Mr Tom", had shoulder surgery from using a backward designed clutching device. WHY ??

If a guy wants to saw logs, he needs to be able to see mechanical problems and FIX them.  :  It's NOT a new automobile. Sanding off the paint on the uprights is NOT going to void any warranty.

I just don't see this as a big deal, sorry.  :

[waho]

Since my machine is 1000 miles from me I have to wait until I get back there to check out for wear on the posts. All I know is that my son complained about the force required to lower the head. Unfortunately the LT10 seems to have other problems as well, such as walking while being pushed an issue which was addressed by using a cable system which is now deleted. I too would like to know what improvements were made to eliminate those features. It still bothers me that in Europe the LT10 seems to be a much better machine than what we get here, it has a crank system to raise and lower the head, leveling feet for the track, adjustable blade guide, two log clamps and a wedge for tapered logs.

[francismilker]

UPDATE!
Since my mill is now mobile I brought it to work today to show the trailer package to some fellows I work with.  When discussing the lift issues with one of the guys he asked if I care if he tried lifting it.  I told him to go ahead.  Now, keep in mind, this is the first time someone else has ever lifted the head other than me.  I stepped aside and watched for his response and as he "grunted" it upwards I noticed some counter movement out of the round mast pipe that runs vertically from the base of the carriage to the top of the operator's side of the mill.  It actually moved forward as he raised the head. 

While having him operate it repetitively, I noticed that it moved forward when he lifted and shifted backwards when pushing downward.  The round pipe is connected to the carriage via two bolts with nylon backing threads.  They seem to be hide tight but there must be enough tolerance in the drilled hole to allow for some shifting back and forth.  This is directly referenced on the mast where the paint is rubbing off. 

My first action will be to put a framing square on the mill carriage and get the vertical posts square.  Then, I'll tighten the bolts if possible.  (If needed, I guess larger bolts can be installed to make sure they're in a very low tolerance hole.) If I can get them tight, I'm going to try what he suggested and remove the paint with some very fine grit emory cloth.  Then, instead of using atf he suggested using Johnson's Paste Wax instead of an oil type lube to cut down on sawdust buildup.  I'll clean the mast up with some type of cleaner like rubbing alchohol to remove any and all oil that might still be there before waxing. 

I won't be able to do this until tonight when I get off work but I'll let you know what I come up with.

[dgdrls]

FrancisM,

If you have the service manual you will note that is one step in prepping the mill to saw square.
Once that is done, you may have to reset your guide rollers to get the band parallel with the bed again
I hope this helps with your issue's

DGDrls

[hamish]

The issue still needs to be addressed.  Take an Lt10 head of the line and see if if its hard to raise/lower, this is not rocket science, and should have been resolved already, as its an assembly pre-assembled by the manufacturer.  The customer should not have to provide the solution to the manufacturer.

No qualms with Woodmizer overall, hell still considering pullin the trigger on an LT28, just when ones considers the number of moving parts involved of the lift system, should be easily resolved.

[sparks]

If you make it easier to raise at the top it will make it harder to lower at the bottom.  You can easily make this happen by following by removing the  200 lb lift assist and replace with 225 lb lift assist.   The gas 225 LB gas cylinder is part number 049039 and they sell for 41.99 plus shipping.  The manual description for the 250 lb assist is a miss print.  It says 250 and it really is a 225.

[waho]

So to fix a problem not of our making we have to buy new parts? And even then it doesn't cure everything. All it does is shift the problem.

[tyb525]

Waho, Do you realize WM makes one of the best hobby mills at one of the lowest prices? There is only so much they can do and still keep it cheap.

I have NO complaint with the head assist on my LT10. Yes, it takes a LITTLE effort to lift, but much less effort than required for turning logs.

Waho, I invite you to design a mill of equal quality to the LT10, that has ZERO flaws and is catered to every person , and sell it for the same price.


Remember it is an ASSISTED LIFT head, not fully automatic!!! If you want to exert NO effort to raise the head, buy a mill with an electric motor power head.

[beenthere]

waho has an interesting comment.
Seems to me that buyers could have spent more bucks and bought a mill that wasn't a manual lift, but chose not to do that.
Seems one gets what they pays for.
Maybe I'm missing something here....

[rimshot]

Well.I was one that experienced  the difficult motor head operation.  We are very glad you guys have not been blessed with that dilemma.  I know how hard it was to move that head and to me it is a olegitimate complaint.   If you did not experience difficulty I can imagine why you feel the way you do.

Now for the good news, the description given by sparks worked for me.  I did have a problem and I believe
WM has hit the bullseye for me with the fix. 

YMMV

rim

[waho]

Well I guess I've been told, it must be nice to sit in your ivory tower and belittle people that buy a lesser mill. My problem is not so much with lifting as it is with lowering. I have to keep coming back to the fact that in Europe the LT 10 has a crank to raise and lower the head, why can't I get this here?

[tyb525]

Hey I bought the same same mill as you, in fact if yours was made in the last year or two, you have better log clamps than me ;). The crank probably costs more to make, is my guess. The LT15 has it though.

Maybe I've not taken these reports of the mill head being nearly impossible to raise or lower seriously enough. It's just really hard to believe WM would let a mill go out the door like that. If that really is the case, my apologies for not understanding. It looks like WM is trying to make it right.

I just hate to see a great company made to look bad by a few people. I know their mills have a few flaws just like everything else. I just think of someone looking to buy a mill and being turned off immediately by people bad mouthing WM because of a problem that the company is doing their best to fix.

[tyb525]

And my apologies Waho, I shouldn't have jumped down your throat like that.

[Busy Beaver Lumber]

My LT-10 is two years old this week and I have never had any problems raising or lowering the head.

I can tell you this, when I assembled it, I followed the book to the letter. Have it mounted to very straight and sturdy 4 x 6 ties, checked the rails for level and bow with string and adjusted accordingly with shims, plus mill sits on concrete floor that is nice and level. Also went over all tower adjustments as detailed in the book. For my efforts, the mill cut excellent wood from day one and never has given me a problem.

[waho]

Nobody is belittling WM, the problem is with having to buy more parts to fix something that should not need to be fixed. This is like buying a new car and then finding out that you have to buy a new engine because the one that came in it does not run properly.
My LT 10 is by now 6mo old, I have two problems with it, lifting and lowering the head and walking. The walking problem seems to have been fixed at one time by cables which kept the head steady, unfortunately those cables have been deleted. The raising and lowering seems to be a new problem which arose in the last year or so. Something has changed in the way these machines are now being built. Now it could be that I made a mistake by not disassembling the head and reassemble it, since it came assembled and I assumed everything was good to go. When I get back to where the saw is I will check everything to make sure it is the way it should be.

[tyb525]

It's a shame that you (and others) have these problems with the newer mills. That isn't right and I hope WM does everything they can to make it right.

[beenthere]

waho
My apologies if I was also too harsh.

but

This is like buying a new car and then finding out that you have to buy a new engine because the one that came in it does not run properly.

I would liken it to buying a new car and then saying the mechanical seat adjustment is too much work, and wanting to have the electric seat adjustment added. It is an extra convenience that is being discussed. IMO

It is an option that comes with the higher priced models.
Now I will bow out. 

[rimshot]

It's a shame that you (and others) have these problems with the newer mills. That isn't right and I hope WM does everything they can to make it right. I wonder if these problems started when they switched to the aluminum bed.

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Hi TYB535

Those rails are actually zinc coated steel but they do look like aluminum.''rimshot

[tyb525]

My bad (again) I could've sworn I read they were aluminum to save weight.