The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Tally-I/O




Author Topic: End matching hardwood flooring  (Read 5080 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WoodenHead

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 629
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Toledo, Ontario
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
End matching hardwood flooring
« on: May 24, 2013, 06:30:20 AM »
I'm interested in producing more hardwood flooring on a regular basis.  For the flooring requests I've had up until now my clients haven't been bothered by the fact that I don't have equipment for end jointery.  Right now I trim my hardwood pieces flush and clients have to butt them together.

I would like to change that and machine T&G on the ends.  However, end matchers (I think they are called) are quite pricey even used.  Is there simpler less costly machinery out there to do this?  I'm aiming to do about 1000 sq ft of flooring per month to start to test my market a bit.   

Offline Leigh Family Farm

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
  • Age: 38
  • Location: South Eastern Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • Live life the way you want. You only get one.
    • Share Post
    • Isagenix
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2013, 08:05:13 AM »
Do you end match on site while installing the flooring? I ask , one, because I don't know, and two, what happens when a piece is 6 inches too long and needs to be trimmed?

If you are doing the end matching on site, why not use two router tables set up with a tongue and the other a groove? You can get a simple Ryobi router table for $100 from HD and a decent yet inexpensive router for $100 as well.

This is just me thinking of a solution, but I don't know anything about flooring or end matching so take it for what its worth! Happy Friday! 8) 8)
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2013, 10:04:25 AM »
To get by with lowest cost, I'd look at using a biscuit cutter to accomplish the end-matching. A step up might be using a radial arm saw fitted with the right blades or tool head.

Quote
what happens when a piece is 6 inches too long and needs to be trimmed?


When end-matched flooring is too long, then a straight cut to fit the piece and use the remaining piece to start the next run of flooring as it won't need an end-matched 'end'.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Thetford, Vermont, USA
  • Gender: Male
  • semper fidelis
    • Share Post
    • Online business card
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 07:45:21 PM »
Hi WoodenHead,

As an installer WoodenHead, I'm not sure you need to bother with doing it.  I often have to trim stock, and then I cut my own joints.  Most the folks I work with do the same, hope that helps.  What do you think?

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline WoodenHead

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 629
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Toledo, Ontario
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 09:50:48 PM »
Up until now I have just been selling the flooring and it is up to the client to install it.  And I would prefer not to install.   ;D  I have a few friends that are more capable than I if installation is required.

From feedback from a few prospective clients it seems that most people have come to expect hardwood pieces with T&G on the end-grain (as well as the edges of course).  I'm not interested in competing with HD and Lowe's, but I see some opportunities given the feed-back I've received on the hardwood flooring I have made.

The idea is to "end-match" as part of the manufacturing process.  The end-matcher is probably the right machine for the job, but $15k and up.  I would like to start small, so perhaps a router table (or two) setup with custom jig(s) might work too.  The biscuit cutter might be a bit too simple for any sizeable quantity?  I'm interested in the suggestion of the radial arm saw.  Never thought about that.


Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2732
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2013, 09:58:12 PM »
One issue when end matching is that the pressure at the end of the cut will often chip the piece or split the last bit of wood out rather than cut it.  So, to prevent this you need some sort of backing piece to stop this.  So, an end matcher is somewhat complex.  You cannot easily adapt of router to do this unless you would cut from both ends (two cuts about each halfway.  Do you know what "up milling" is all about?  How about a shaper?  This could possibly work.

How about putting a finger joint on the end of each piece and then glue the short pieces together into 16' strips or similar?  This would eliminate the need for end matching, or frequent end matching...just once every 16'.  And you could use some short pieces too that normally might get tossed.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline black spruce

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Age: 45
  • Location: quebec, canada
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2013, 06:40:06 AM »
You might want to Check with  Logosol  i think they have something to do low volume end match ing


If I remember well I thinking it was the mf30, probably similar to a shaper

Good luck


Offline hillbillyhogs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: West Virginia
  • Gender: Male
  • WOW, what a day
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2013, 08:28:26 AM »
This is what I is doing.  Cut them flush rackem and clamp them just like they're laying on the floor, run the router across the end, as long as you have clamps long enough then that's the amount you can do at one time. The first and last piece usually get some tear out. Cut those flush and throw them in the middle of your next rack of flooring.
Make sense?

Offline t f flippo

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2013, 08:41:36 PM »
hbh,  Like WoodDoc said, you need a back-up piece or scrap block to prevent tear out. Only cut the back-up once, after that it's already in profile. Just like cutting sticking on stiles and rails on a shaper.

Shaper with a sliding sled table would be what I tried first. ( or router table with a sled )

How are you cutting the T & G on the length now ? Could you do the same for end matching ?


Offline WoodenHead

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 629
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Toledo, Ontario
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2013, 05:35:21 AM »
Thanks everyone!  You have given me some options.  I have to say that I do not know what "up milling" is.

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2732
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 08:43:29 AM »
Normally we mill so that the knife wants to push the piece back toward the feed end.  In up milling we machine the opposite.  Very dangerous to use a router or shaper in the wrong direction, so be careful indeed.  Someone might tell you that it stops the chipping at the end of the cut, but do not do it without lots of guidance, and then maybe do not do it anyway.  Mach safer to use a backer piece of wood.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Thetford, Vermont, USA
  • Gender: Male
  • semper fidelis
    • Share Post
    • Online business card
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2013, 10:09:50 AM »
What Gene said!!!! x2.  One of the fellows in our group almost lost a thumb, nasty piece of work are some of those "up mill" bits, especially in 3.5 horse router.  I must also state again that I lay  a fair amount of flooring and end up cutting and trimming most ends to my specifications, so they are jointed in the field with a 70 mm tenon(s) (~3"), so end jointing by the producer is not required or warranted.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline Cedarman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6125
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Marengo In
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Cedarusa
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2013, 10:35:54 AM »
What are the advantages of having end joined flooring?  What are the disadvantages of having flush cut ends.  We have cedar, ash and walnut flooring in our house.  End cuts were with chop saw.  I haven't noticed any issues.  Is it more critical with thinner flooring?  Ours is 3/4".
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline hillbillyhogs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: West Virginia
  • Gender: Male
  • WOW, what a day
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2013, 10:43:40 AM »
What are the advantages of having end joined flooring?  What are the disadvantages of having flush cut ends.  We have cedar, ash and walnut flooring in our house.  End cuts were with chop saw.  I haven't noticed any issues.  Is it more critical with thinner flooring?  Ours is 3/4".

In narrow flooring 2 - 2 1/4 it's unnecessary really, may speed up installation a tiny bit but, we never worried about. Wider flooring it will keep the ends locked down.

Offline Jay C. White Cloud

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Thetford, Vermont, USA
  • Gender: Male
  • semper fidelis
    • Share Post
    • Online business card
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM »
Hi Cedarman,

That is a really good question, and I believe in your case, if the flooring is under 4" in width there is not a significant difference between butting the ends and jointing.  Of course jointing is going to lock things together better, but I would not be concerned if you did not. 

However if you use wide planks 150mm to 800mm (~6" to 32") that is another matter entirely.  It is also the method of laying the floor.  I often will "float" a traditional floor, and/or use only wood joinery to make it all fit together.  In this regard, end jointing is a must, in most cases.  Hope that helps.

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Offline hackberry jake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3183
  • Age: 34
  • Location: St. Paul, ARKANSAS
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: End matching hardwood flooring
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2013, 11:53:13 PM »
In my neck of the woods, "up milling" is called "climb cutting". Its dangerous if you allow a run-away situation. Usually a power feeder is required.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Hardwood flooring

Started by robmelby on General Board

0 Replies
328 Views
Last post February 12, 2017, 09:10:53 AM
by robmelby
xx
Hardwood Flooring

Started by ahlkey on General Woodworking

8 Replies
1955 Views
Last post February 14, 2011, 07:50:40 PM
by woodmills1
xx
Hardwood flooring

Started by summerjob on Sawmills and Milling

19 Replies
3294 Views
Last post October 24, 2004, 09:55:47 AM
by shopteacher
xx
Moulder for hardwood flooring

Started by True North on Sawmills and Milling

20 Replies
13276 Views
Last post December 22, 2009, 01:18:43 PM
by True North
 


Powered by EzPortal