Consorting with Pecan (the Devil) and Need Advice

[WDH]

I am building what might be called an entry table.  It is a narrow table that sits against a wall and is a place that you can put your keys on or other stuff on as you come into the house.  I decided to use pecan ( ) for the table top.  The base will be wrought iron and will be made by an associate that is good with wrought iron (as I am not good with metal of any sort.  It has to have leaves or bark on it for me to deal with it  ).  Anyway, this piece of pecan has a lot of issues character.  There is a crotch section with a lot of figure, but the crotch had in-grown bark.  I used walnut dutchmen to stabilize the split in the crotch.  However, there is a gap that begs to be filled.  Therein lies the question.

I experimented on another piece that had some splits in it.  I wanted the fill to be black to match the edges of the in-grown crotch.  My first thought was black epoxy.  That will work, but the black epoxy is expensive.  It would take $40 or so to fill the gap with black epoxy used for musical instrument building.  As I lay in bed thinking about the problem, I had an epiphany.  Why not use that black jack waterproof roofing cement that comes in a caulk tube?  It is black, waterproof, and dries hard.  It would be easy to apply with a caulking gun, and only costs a few bucks a tube.  So, I have a little experiment where I put some in the splits on another piece to see how it would dry and sand.  I plan to use an oil finish, and I do not know if the oil will react with or dissolve or smear the roofing compound.  So, the question is do you think that will work or do you have another solution? 

Here are a couple of pics of the top with the offending-spilt-ingrown-crotch-section.  The third pic is where I am experimenting with the "black jack" on another piece.



 



 



 

Am I crazy  ???.

[wildbill]

i mixed white oak saw dust with titebond III and found out it turns black on the last table i did.  i dont know if it does that with other wood but i was pretty surprised when it got dark then dried almost jet black.  it didnt have a problem taking the butcher block finish.

of course i cant find a pic of it but it might be worth a shot to try on scraps

[Dan_Shade]

I went to a high priced craft store and bought some linseed oil based black paint in a tube.  I squeeze a bit of this into a batch of system three epoxy.  This seems to work well.  one problem I have is the system three is pretty thin and runny, which makes it a bit of a hassle.

in the past I have used charcoal ground up and added to the epoxy, I have also used ebony sawdust added to glue or epoxy.

I'd be concerned about the black jack turning gray over time.  how does it do out on a roof?  I hadn't thought of this.  will it get soft if a cup of coffee is put on it, or it's left in front of a window?

[WDH]

I could live with it turning gray, as there is gray color in the pecan, but I could not live with it getting soft. 

[hackberry jake]

$40 seems pretty small compared to what that table will be worth. But I think you should keep trying cheaper solutions and we will all benifit from it  Epoxy would be the best option if you needed to hold it together as well but you covered that with the butterflys so I say go for it. How did you get the edges like that? I like it! Hold on let me guess... spokeshave?

[Peter Drouin]

I don; t know that piece of wood needs a lot of work.
But if you're going to go with it use the black epoxy the epoxy will hold the wood together and the thing won't fall apart
If you find someone to buy it sell it high $ to get back the epoxy money, or ask the man that gets $ 300 for an unfinished slab of oak for a price :D :D

[WDH]

 :D :D :D :D.

Good advice, Peter.  I need to talk with the "Bench Master".  I will get that chance in a about a week and a half as the "Bench Master" is coming down for the Sycamore #2 Project.  One option is to definitely leave it just like it is. 

Jake,

Maybe I can fill 90% of the gap with the "black jack" and fill the last little bit of the crack with the black epoxy.  You can see air through the crack, and the board is 1.75" thick, so there is a lot of volume to fill.  Maybe a two-toned approach? 

As to the edges, I took my Bosch jig saw and turned the base to a 45 degree angle and kinda randomly "sculpted" the edge, then sanded the "DanG" out of the edges using a random orbit sander with 80 grit sanding pad.  I will repeat with 150 grit, then with 220 grit.   I plan to finish with about 4 coats of 100% tung oil.   

[Larry]

You have any Bondo left from the cedar project?  Color it with lampblack or India  ink.

[WDH]

Actually I do if it has not got hard.  Never thought about coloring it.  Hmmmmmmmm..........

[Peter Drouin]

I did; t know you can fix wood with Bondo . I did not think it would stick. :D
Something new.

[LeeB]

You can get cellulose filler to mix with the epoxy. It can also be colored to any color you want. Think gell coat like is used in fiberglass work. Get creative with what you use for a filler. Mica chips come to mind. Experiment with saw dust as a filler. Fiber glass repair epoxy is fairly cheap at the big box stores if you buy by the gallon.

[WDH]

I am liking this more and more.  Some excellent suggestions.  I have never used fiberglass repair epoxy.  The main thing is to fill the full depth of the crotch split and maybe I can top off with the more expensive black epoxy.  The split needs to be filled, not stabilized per se. 

[scsmith42]

Danny, I can offer two options.  The first is to purchase some black india ink, and mix it in with your regular epoxy (I presume that you're using one of the West Systems mixes?).

The second option is to ground up some charcoal briquettes and use them for color.  I've used charcoal with CA for filling gaps.

Scott

[pigman]

Fill the crack with the black jack waterproof roofing cement to within .25in of the surface and then just finish filling with clear epoxy. The crack will look black.

[Axe Handle Hound]

I think you could get away with filling the crack with cheap clear silicone and then finish it off with tinted epoxy or bondo like Larry says.  I didn't remember it until I read Larry's post, but I used bondo on a woodworking project once long ago so I just went back to look at it.  Looks to me like it's held up really well.  I'm assuming you're going to have an apron under the width of the bench and you've already got those nicely done Dutchmen in there so like you say, it really only needs to be filled, not glued together.  Should be a nice looking table when you get it done.  What will the legs look like? 

[grweldon]

OK Guys... I've been known to make some fine woodworking items and have been working on a highly figured maple solidbody guitar for years.  Danny, stay away from the roofing stuff, it has no place on a piece of fine woodworking like that table will be.  Even if you buy regular epoxy and tint it (with powdered analine dye available at the Woodworker's Store or Stewart-MacDonald guitar supply) the epoxy will contain air bubbles.  The black epoxy made especially for this type of filling will be the only one that produces an acceptable result and will not change in the coming decades.  There is one caveat, that slab has to be about 6-8% moisture before you fill it with anything, otherwise as it dries, the fill material will crack.

Don't ruin that piece... don't be penny-wise and dollar foolish...

[mesquite buckeye]

Looking good. Two small thoughts: 1. Are you going to dig out that ingrown bark before you fill the crack? The whole thing could loosen with wood movement otherwise.   2. I would suggest adding butterflies on the bottom surface also to fully stabilize the piece. ;D 8) 8) 8)

[thecfarm]

I used bondo on a piece of furniture. But I painted it. You would have no idea the bondo is there. Its on both bottom corners. When we brought it,both corners were rotten.



 

[WDH]

The "black jack" experiment was a failure.  I remember a Far Side cartoon once that had a lab table with a duck sitting on it.  There was a bunch of lab equipment on the lab table like beakers, test tubes, bunsen burners, etc.  There was a Scientist there looking at the duck.  In the background, there was a large blackboard, and in chalk, this was written (or something similar):

Like acid off a duck's back
Like gasoline off a duck's back
Like nitro-glycerin off a duck's back
Like lacquer thinner off a duck's back
Like water off a duck's back

So, here is my take on my experiment in the same vein:

"Black jack" to fill a crotch crack

:D

I decided to let the crack be a crack, and left it "au naturel" as they say in Quebec.

(Sometimes a man has to leave well enough, alone  ).

[Dan_Shade]

what were the results?

[WDH]

It was just too messy.  Did not dry hard in the time I allotted it.  Still just a bit sticky.  Probably would be OK if you could wait for a week or a month for it to dry and harden, but I am not that patient.  As it was, it gummed up everything including the cracks. 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Its best to leave a crack alone if you don't know what to expect. 

[WDH]

Au Naturel  .

[Migal]

 :D Okay I fell in and read the whole post. and glad to have seen the Far Side tidbit  8) as I was looking at the fine bow tie's I was thinking what is wrong with that but did keep  :P and my thoughts were What is wrong with the way it is Hmm  8) Then read some more and a lot of great Idea's came out as I was thinking what is wrong with the way it is  8)

[GAmillworker]

I know you already made a good choice to leave it natural.  However when I do need to fill large cracks Bondo and black quickcrete concrete coloring which is lamp black works really well.

[grweldon]

I can't argue with success (or unsuccess) but Bondo will absorb moisture over time.  As an autobody filler it has a sealed metal substrate and is completely sealed with the topcoat, preventing moisture absorption.

I would suppose (haven't done it or seen it) that if using Bondo with wood, if the wood isn't at 6-8% MC, the filler will absorb the moisture directly from the wood and swell.  Not a big deal if it's at the bottom of a door or the bottom of a bench that stays outside.  A HUGE deal if on a piece of fine woodworking considering time and materials used.  Just my a..hole opinion...

[Texas Ranger]

Now that the decision has been made, had a thought.   A material called floor leveler, or words to that effect, bought as a powder, mixed with water, and spread on floors to level cracks, etc.  Might work.

[WDH]

Well, I finished the entry table tops.  They await their wrought iron bases.  Actually, the black jack roofing cement on the one experimental area turned out OK.  I don't think that I gave it enough time to cure.  Anyway, here are some pics after three coats of satin polyurethane and paste wax.  The first  is a pic of the top that had the black jack experiment.  It was applied to the cracks on the near end of this pic in the area of the dutchman. 



 

Here is the other top.  There is a lot more going on in this piece, including more heartwood to sapwood contrast, some figured grain, and the crotch split.  I don't think that not filling the long crack was a bad move in the end.  Maybe the black jack would have worked it I had been judicious in application and let it cure for at least several days. 



 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I gotta see these in person. 

[hackberry jake]

What finish did you use? They sure are purdy! How much of a discount are you gunna give me on the one with the big crack in it?  ;D

[mesquite buckeye]

Pretty nice for pretzel wood, methinks. smiley_biggrin01

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Look here O Great One......I'm not reading back through all these replies......but have you put anything in that crack yet?

[WDH]

P,

They will be leaving here tomorrow  .

Jake, I will cut the price from $350 to $325  ;D.  The finish turned out really nice.  It is this stuff in the link.  Dries fast, can be re-coated in 4 - 6 hours.  Thin with 25% mineral spirits and apply with a foam brush.  Buff with 0000 steel wool between coats.  Move the foam brush slowly with very light pressure and the finish will flow out just right.  I use the clear satin.

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/interior-clear-protective-finishes/minwax-fastdrying-polyurethane

[customsawyer]

Those look great Danny. Did they come out of some of the pecan we sawed?

[WDH]

Yes sir.  Out of some of that orchard pecan we sawed 2 1/2 years ago. 

[Axe Handle Hound]

That piece turned out really nice and I like your choice of satin poly.  Too much gloss can make a good piece look gawdy.  I think your customer is going to be very pleased.

[WDH]

This finish is especially nice, a soft low sheen.  The camera flash reflects the light and does not show the real depth of the finish. 

[Magicman]

That Devil is really pretty.  I am anxious to see the finished table.   

I have a customer that did an entire kitchen with Pecan.  Counter tops/door panels, table and benches.  Once it dries and does it's thing, it works very well. 

[scsmith42]

Looking sharp Danny!  Can't wait to see pix of the finished piece.

[jamesamd]

I love the one with the bark inclusions 8)

Jim

[Lud]

looks real nice, Danny.   The crack will look even darker when paired up with black metal legs......... ;)