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Author Topic: Very Interesting  (Read 5901 times)

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Offline Happycamper

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Very Interesting
« on: October 09, 2013, 04:58:54 PM »
We LT 10 owners know how difficult it is to raise and lower the head on our saws. In Poland where the Wood Mizers for Europe are manufactured the LT 10 Has a hand crank for raising and lowering the head. A log wedge for raising the taper of the log. A blade guide arm so the blade guides are not wide open for smaller logs. Two log dogs come standard.
I wonder why these items are not on the mills in US and Canada seeing they can do it in Poland. This is from the website in Poland.
                                         Jim
 

 
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

Offline rmack

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 09:44:52 PM »
I have noticed that sort of thing quite a few times. There is no question, Woodmizer doesn't place anywhere near the importance on the north american market that they do the european market.

perhaps they have more advanced competition there? maybe they sell way more mills there? why go to the expense of providing these goodies to the north american market when they don't really have to?

Maybe we can take this as a good opportunity to understand how Cubans feel about the cars they have to drive.
the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Offline beenthere

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 09:50:41 PM »
rmack
Maybe it has a lot to do with what they think is marketable in the american market and what extras buyers are willing to pay for, as the mills would be more expensive.
Likely all the mill company's pay attention to what their competitors offer and at what price, and then make their decisions including that information. Just thinkin that............
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline rmack

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 12:13:08 AM »
Quote
rmack
Maybe it has a lot to do with what they think is marketable in the american market and what extras buyers are willing to pay for

Are these options for the euro market or are they standard equipment on european models? nobody at woodmizer will even talk about it.

The only thing for certain is that there are capabilities readily available to the euro market that are not available at any cost to the north american market.
the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Offline Brucer

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 01:59:57 AM »
... Woodmizer doesn't place anywhere near the importance on the north american market that they do the european market.

I'm not so sure. I was reading some numbers a couple of years ago, and it seems that portable sawmill owners in Europe are much more likely to be earning a living with their saws, whereas in North America the majority of portable mill owners are part time sawyers or hobbyists.

That suggests to me that In Europe even the small mills will be treated as production machines. Extra options that speed up production will be available (at a cost, of course). In North America the small mills will be competing in the hobby market and price will be the main consideration.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Offline rimshot

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 07:51:41 AM »
I have noticed that sort of thing quite a few times. There is no question, Woodmizer doesn't place anywhere near the importance on the north american market that they do the european market.

perhaps they have more advanced competition there? maybe they sell way more mills there? why go to the expense of providing these goodies to the north american market when they don't really have to?

Maybe we can take this as a good opportunity to understand how Cubans feel about the cars they have to drive.
Happycamper
==============

Jim mentions the difficulty when it comes to sliding the saw head up or down on the LT10.  I love my LT10 by WoodMizer but certainly have to agree with Jim on this observation.  A day running that great little machine can leave me with a sore back.  Woodmizer has been great to work with but unfortunately the difficulty remains when we attempted to fix the problem.

I have tried to swap air cylinders in the easy lift mechanism to free up the stiff movement..The results may have made up movement improve but caused down movement to become more difficult.  If I can keep the round rail clean and lubed with transmission fluid it goes up fairly well at this point but becomes difficult to push down  when I get near the bottom of sawing a cant.  I practically have to lay on top  of that saw head to get her to lock low enough  to cut the bottom board from the cant.

If it turns out that WM is experimenting with the European market in an effort to improve this great little sawmill this could be a good thing.  Here's to the Polish in hopes they can muster up an improvement for operating the LT10.

When WM gets the above issue figured out they might consider hiring Happycamper as a consultant.  He has already dream t up about a dozen improvements that could make this fine machine even more efficient.

rim

LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

Offline rmack

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 09:19:13 AM »
... Woodmizer doesn't place anywhere near the importance on the north american market that they do the european market.

I'm not so sure. I was reading some numbers a couple of years ago, and it seems that portable sawmill owners in Europe are much more likely to be earning a living with their saws, whereas in North America the majority of portable mill owners are part time sawyers or hobbyists.

That suggests to me that In Europe even the small mills will be treated as production machines. Extra options that speed up production will be available (at a cost, of course). In North America the small mills will be competing in the hobby market and price will be the main consideration.

I understand what you are saying Bruce, but that doesn't change the fact, you either sell your best product to anyone who walks in the door (make all this stuff available in north america, or world wide for that matter), or save the best stuff for your best customers (euro market only).

It's pretty clear which path Woodmizer has chosen.
the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Offline Happycamper

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 09:33:39 AM »
I could be wrong (again) but to my way of thinking rather than spending $150.00-$200 on air cylinders cables and pulleys that don't work well, put a simple steel hand crank with a gear on the end and a piece of chain on the post and you would have money left over, and a system easy to raise and lower with the added benefit of being able to watch the scale while raising and lowering the head. 
                                   Jim
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

Offline beenthere

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 10:07:29 AM »
Quote
The only thing for certain is that there are capabilities readily available to the euro market that are not available at any cost to the north american market.

rmack
That makes sense to me, and must to WM as well.
It likely is all about market share and not risking adding extras to put on the shelf or on a mill.
And they may not feel that there is a demand for these extras, and monitor that through their sales and at their shows. Plus monitor their competitors.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline rmack

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 10:36:04 AM »
Quote
That makes sense to me, and must to WM as well.

Are you the Woodmizer rep?  :)

Quote
It likely is all about market share

I agree, WM owns most of the north american market and have concluded that selling an inferior product, compared to what they sell in europe, does not threaten their dominance.

Quote
And they may not feel that there is a demand for these extras

Maybe it would help to have a poll and see how many FF members would be interested in some of these options?

I'll take the powered toe boards with Coleman spikes instead of inserts.  :)



the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Offline jcbrotz

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 11:06:22 AM »
Remember that some things are patented in the USA so they cannot us them here but can overseas. :P
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

Offline sger

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 11:17:28 AM »
Hi,

Im LT40 owner in germany.

The answer may be connected to woodmizer prices in the US compared to what we have to pay here in europe...

Offline Draco

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 12:54:53 PM »
Shipping wouldn't be cheap, but you could give them a call in Poland and see if they will sell to you.  They don't have an email address yet! ;D ???

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/ContactUs.aspx

Offline rmack

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 02:16:25 PM »
Remember that some things are patented in the USA so they cannot us them here but can overseas. :P

somebody has a patent for a power driven woodmizer toe board? I would have to see it to believe it... and if they do, where do I buy one? you would think that if somebody went to that trouble, they would be selling them. maybe we should thank our lucky stars they aren't making dual plane clamps only available in europe?

Hi,

Im LT40 owner in germany.

The answer may be connected to woodmizer prices in the US compared to what we have to pay here in europe...

options are options, buy them and pay more, or don't buy them.

consumer choice is the issue.

maybe I should start a company to produce components to upgrade north american woodmizer mills to euro standards? :)




the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Offline nk14zp

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 02:27:29 PM »
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

Offline Sixacresand

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 07:46:00 PM »
I added a hand crank winch to raise my  Lt10 head.  Even with properly operating lift-assist-cylinders, I did not like lift the head with my bad back.  I plan to put the mill on a skidding frame made of 6 inch I beams. Then I can experiment with installing toe rollers, log turners and hydraulic gadgets.  I will be going to the GA National Fair tomorrow and the Woodmizer guys might talk me into buying a hydraulic mill.  :D

Offline Happycamper

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2013, 09:56:42 AM »
Thanks all for the feedback on this issue and Rimshot for your kind words. Perhaps WM will read these posts and consider making some improvements to the little mill. Being able to raise and lower the saw head and read the scale at the same time = being able to set accurately is and would be worth a fair buck to me and money well spent.
                                               Jim
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

Offline Happycamper

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2013, 05:15:34 PM »
From the Wood Mizer Poland here are two pages of the LT10 and 1 of the LT15.
                                           Jim

 

  

  

 
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Offline waho

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2013, 10:48:55 PM »
I've been grousing about the fact that WM sells a, to me, better machine in Europe than it does here for quite a while. When I questioned WM why we can't get the better machine here I was told it would be too expensive even though they say that electric is less expensive to purchase, operate and maintain. So you've got to do what every red blooded American does best, you modify it yourself. So far mine sports an electric motor and leveling feet, I'm working on a lift system because as most 10 owners know, the stock hydraulics don't work, also I had someone try and get me a manual for a European LT10 so that I could copy what they have done, unfortunately they were unsuccessful, you need the serial # to get a replacement manual. Hey WM want to sell me a manual?

Offline delvis

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Re: Very Interesting
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2013, 11:26:31 PM »
It would seem to me that based on the consumers and the choice of mills here compared to Europe, you have two camps.  You have those that would like to keep it inexpensive and relatively simple and you have those that don't mind paying more to have hydraulics, etc.

In Europe, the cost of an hydraulic mill may be so expensive by the time it gets there, that WM doesn't sell all that many of them.  Because of that, they put a few more baubles on the mills they DO sell the most of, the LT10.  I purely guessing at that, I have no idea what they sell the most of, only what I would do if I were selling them.

Over here, they probably feel most customers who want a crank up and down head will spring for the LT15 or maybe even the LT15 GO which gives them a trailer. 

It is nice to have options available that you see elsewhere, but if WM can't sell them here they aren't going to put them on.

I've told WM I would like to see them put the screw jack outriggers on every trailered mill standard with the option for the customer to save a little coin if they really didn't think they needed them.  The standard jacks save a grand over the screw jacks and no doubt, that $1,000 is way expensive for what they are, but are they ever worth it.  Just like the LT10, my guess is they don't include them because enough people would rather save the money.

I'd love to hear what someone from WM has to say just to see if any of this speculation is true.
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!


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