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Author Topic: timberking 1600 log stops  (Read 4081 times)

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Offline reswire

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timberking 1600 log stops
« on: November 05, 2013, 10:08:56 PM »
I own a timber king 1600 , love the mill but am disappointed in the log stops. They are easily bent and once bent a real pain in the neck.  I've tried turning the logs in opposite directions, keeping knots or limbs sawn off or away from the stops, but they just seem too easy to bend.  I've had manual stops welded to the bed, my own design, and they work well, but I was wondering if anyone has "beefed up" the original design and would be willing to share it.  A local welding shop made suggestions for a new system, but it will cost 2k to install.  I guess that's not too much considering the relief from the aggravation.  Wish I had bought the 2000 now.  Not sure if the hydraulic stops are better,,,, couldn't be worse. 
LT 40HDG 35, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 3 Chessies and a Weiner dog...

Offline ladylake

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 05:24:59 AM »
 You'd never bend the 200 backstop which are way bigger than my B20 stops which I've never bent in over 9000 hours and they get abused.  I haven't seen the 1600 stops but $2000 sure seems like a lot to beef them up.    Steve
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Offline reswire

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 07:06:08 AM »
The b 20 and Timberking mills of that size use hydraulics and box steel supports, welded to the side of the frame.  Those machines are why I originally purchased a Timberking, they are really rock solid.   The 1600 and 1400 have mechanical stops that "bend down forward" on an angle.  Great in theory but weak on metal, and I believe pressure from the leverage on the stop arm is causing the problems .  I'd love to have the hydraulic design on my mill, but Timberking won't retrofit for the 1600.  I've talked to Matt at Timberking, (great people) and he advised they have hired a young engineer to redesign the system and beef it up I suppose.  I have a hydraulic/box design of my own, but it will stick down too low under the deck to travel on the road without potential problems.  Kinda stuck, I guess I'll just go with the welded manual stops I've installed for milling cants, and the factory stops to stop initial log "rollover" when loading the mill.  If you have any designs to improve, please send my way.  Thanks, again.
LT 40HDG 35, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 3 Chessies and a Weiner dog...

Online thecfarm

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 08:12:47 AM »
reswire,welcome to the forum. First time around a mill?What's the plan for the lumber?
I have a Thomas. Built here in Maine. This is a picture of the log stop. It slides up and down into square tubing,like a recieving trailer hitch. I have since marked inches on the stop. I made 4 inches really 3 inches.

 

 
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Offline pineywoods

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 09:50:56 AM »
I would suggest you find someone with one of the larger woodmizers and look at the backstops. A proven design that has been in use for decades, and would be easy to retrofit to just about any mill. Adjustable, so if you do bend one (not likely) a simple adjustment puts it back square. Also very easy to add hydraulic power..I've seen only one case of a bent mizer backstop. That was an encounter with a 6000 lb off-road forklift with no brakes carrying a 30 something inch log.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline kensfarm

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 12:08:19 PM »
Are you actually bending the stops.. or pushing it out of alignment?  I have a
1600 too.

Offline Kcwoodbutcher

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 12:43:47 PM »
I have an older 1600 that originally had 1/4 thick backstops. they were bent beyond use. I cut them off the original mounts and welded 1" by 2" pieces in their place. I haven't bent them yet. You can bend the long tubular rod that make them move up and down if you try to turn a heavy log or cant against them when they are at an angle. I always make them vertical before I turn anything heavy. It takes a lot of stress off the system.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

Offline reswire

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 01:08:55 PM »
I should correct myself, it is the brackets that hold the log stop at a 90 degree angle to the deck.  I got the new brackets from Timber king, an improvement over the old brackets, but the new ones bent as well. Most of the logs I get, push the 30-36 inch diameter range, just heavy logs I suppose.   I'm going to look at a new LT 40 in Pennsylvania this weekend, I'll check on how they install theirs and maybe get some good ideas.  I could probably take it to a fabrication shop and have them build new brackets out of angle iron, with a better grade of steel as well.  The factory ones just flex and bend, and once bent, they hit the head when it travels down the frame.  I could just stick with the manual stops I had installed, but I can't help but think there is an easy fix to the existing design.  I love the rest of the mill, when I get this issue resolved, I'm sure I'll be even happier with it.   
LT 40HDG 35, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 3 Chessies and a Weiner dog...

Offline tazz

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 03:25:18 PM »
I have the same problem with my 1600. Mainly with the one closest to the operator end of the mill. I thought about getting my backstops set at 90 degrees to the deck and having the brackets welded to the frame so they can't move. I always have to stop after sawing a big log and re adjust the one back stop so my saw head can travel past it. I have torqued down on those bolts that hold the brackets to the frame as much as I could to try to prevent them from moving but it doesn't help when I get a big log on there. Would I be messing up by welding the brackets to the frame? I can't see any reason I would need to ever remove them.

Offline kensfarm

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 04:17:47 PM »
Yes.. the first stop seems to take the most abuse.  I replaced those nylon locking nuts w/ lock washers &
2 nuts.. so I could really crank them down.  I think adding an additional stop closer to the front would help disperse the force/load. 

Offline Bigbo1234

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 09:14:36 PM »
I too have a tk 1600 and the same issue. That and even when working right they seem to have about a 1/4" of wiggle at the top when straight up. I've only got 180 hours on them so I know there not worn. I got the mill used and the previous owner had a shop weld pockets on at 4 different locations at a perfect 90 to receive a 1x2 peice of steel. Of which I have different lengths . I use the factory stops for the first cut when making a cant than either switch to the aftermarket ones or use the little welded on stops. My brother in law runs a fab shop and I'm gonna have him take a look to see about a serious improvement on the factory ones. I hope tk takes a better look at this issue. The very first log I ever milled with my tk mill bent the closest to the command post just like you all describe. I had to pull it apart and hammer the bracket on my anvil then re weld a new nut on because their weld tore off. Kind of a disappointment. Other than that I love it. Also had to fix the clamp on the movable guide roller. Stripped the threads somehow.
Bowen

Offline vfauto

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 10:03:50 PM »
I agree, just had a conversation with Will Johnson about the same thing. I was considering trading up but to much $.Other than the stops I love the mill!
I own a timber king 1600 , love the mill but am disappointed in the log stops. They are easily bent and once bent a real pain in the neck.  I've tried turning the logs in opposite directions, keeping knots or limbs sawn off or away from the stops, but they just seem too easy to bend.  I've had manual stops welded to the bed, my own design, and they work well, but I was wondering if anyone has "beefed up" the original design and would be willing to share it.  A local welding shop made suggestions for a new system, but it will cost 2k to install.  I guess that's not too much considering the relief from the aggravation.  Wish I had bought the 2000 now.  Not sure if the hydraulic stops are better,,,, couldn't be worse.
The definition of insanity is to do the same things over and over and expect a different result!

Offline Will_Johnson

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2013, 09:20:04 AM »
Hello All:

We find that for the preponderance of 1600 users the stops work great. That said users who are consistently on the high side of the rated capacity of the mill do sometimes bend the brackets below the stops. I am not aware of the stop bars themselves being bent since we went to a heavier design several (6 or 7?) years ago.

Though this is relatively rare, it isn't acceptable. We are, as mentioned, working to improve the design so that this will be nearly eliminated. I can't say "totally" eliminated because anyone who has worked with logs & mills long enough knows anything can happen.

Lest anyone be tempted to crow about our having a design improvement on the drawing board (looks like one person already has!) I would challenge you, respectfully, to name a company of any kind that would be as forthright and up-front about a design improvement on a public forum.

Or to paraphrase scripture: let he who's sawmill is without flaws cast the first stone.

We're not perfect and while we don't claim to be, we do aim to be.

Best,

Will

Offline 5quarter

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2013, 09:26:50 PM »
Will...Good post. engineering is a never-ending process. That's how great products become even better. :P :P
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
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Offline Bigbo1234

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2013, 06:54:56 AM »
I'm glad you get on here Will, it's encouraging to hear the positive responses from you and that your addressing issues brought up by the people using the mills you build. I really do love this mill, thank you. This forum is a great way for you to see what people are saying about your products, both good and bad. Does the Woodmizer counterpart ever get on here?
Bowen

Offline Bigbo1234

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2013, 06:56:45 AM »
Why is there a peice of pie in my post?
Bowen

Offline Bigbo1234

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2013, 06:58:11 AM »
What the heck it keeps doing it?
Bowen

Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2013, 08:29:11 AM »


Why is there a peice of pie in my post?

...

What the heck it keeps doing it?

Happy Birthday! (or at least the Forum thinks so!)

Herb

Online thecfarm

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2013, 08:39:04 AM »
Bigbo1234,Happy Birthday. Hover your mouse over the cake or cupcake. It should say Happy Birthday.While you are poking around,go up to the Menu Bar too. Starts out with Home,Help,Search.lots of stuff over on the Extra tab to check out and the other ones too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline reswire

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Re: timberking 1600 log stops
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2013, 10:38:28 PM »
I just want to clarify my intentions on my post. Timberking has been great to me, all employees are extremely helpful and professional.  There mills are truly rugged and robust, I just needed some imput on how to improve my log stop situation.  I milled several logs today in the 30 inch, 18 foot range, and had no problems loading or turning the logs with the components on the mill.  Everything works as it should, mills clean and straight, does it all like it should.  I called Timberking about the stops, and I realize with all the legal suits filed in todays world, any company would be foolish to recommend changes to their machine to someone via telephone or e-mail.  I wouldn't give such recommendations myself, nor would I do so if I were an owner or employee of any saw mill company.  Just too many things can go wrong in the exchange of info.  With that in mind, I decided to go to this forum to pick a few brains for ideas.  I have no intentions of selling my mill, unless it was to upgrade to a 2000.  After all, wouldn't we all like a bigger, badder machine???  Today I used my self installed manual stops to mill the cants, and it worked out fine.  Until I can get some pics of hydraulic stops, I will probably keep plugging along with things the way they are.  I mill for fun, mostly my own stuff, and some for friends and neighbors.  Most of my problems are always "self-inflicted", and a closer look at what I am or am not doing, usually makes things right.  Just wanted to let everyone know, the mill is a *DanG good setup, but like any piece of machinery, always in need of a little "tinkering", to make an individual like myself happy. 
LT 40HDG 35, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 3 Chessies and a Weiner dog...


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