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Author Topic: How do you handle it  (Read 1960 times)

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Offline Peter Drouin

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How do you handle it
« on: November 25, 2013, 06:28:17 PM »
When you go to a job and do it by the Board foot and there are rotten or hollow logs . And there in the pile the customer made, you can see the rot in the end of the log and the customer can see it but put it or them[ more than one] in the pile. Do you go through the work to put it on the mill. And yes you might get 2 boards where you should have had 10. Do you charge for all 10 or the 2 or work for free with the 8 that are junk.
I charge for all the BF. If you put it in the pile and want it cut you pay for all of it , if you don't want it cut I will cut the log in 2' pieces and toss it and go to the next log for free.[ I'm talking 2 or 3 logs not 10] And what about the customer that put all the logs in the pile and tells you to go through them  :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 06:36:08 PM »
saw it all up and talk about the artistic virtues of working with tinted epoxy
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline drobertson

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 07:25:07 PM »
this is one of the main reasons I visit the site and logs,  If they feel so inclined to try and reclaim lumber from their logs, and I saw it, it goes on the tally.  If in fact it is so bad that it is unmanageable as far as handling, I make it manageable enough to dump off, take the log scale and move on.  It has only happened a few times with  only a few suspect logs,  and yes it is a bit frustrating,    david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline woodandtractors

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 07:40:26 PM »
I handle it the same way my Dad always did-charge based on the log scale. If you bring me junk to saw(rotten or hollow logs)you pay on the volume that went through the mill--too bad for you if it's half rot! I realize there's overrun on a thin kerf saw,and you can lose a little board scale my way,but the time spent tallying each piece is worth something too.  I still scale logs with a NH caliper,which seems to be a bit generous on small to medium logs that make up most of what I cut.
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 07:55:28 PM »
Peter,he just wants you to dispose of the log.Myself I would advise him its not worth cutting but you will do it if he wants. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Ianab

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 08:05:28 PM »
Anything that's not a good saw log, but you can still process, can be done on an hourly rate. This can cover short logs, crooked logs, under size logs, hollow logs, beams etc.
If it takes you 15 mins to load it, open it up, recover a couple of boards, see the rest is junk, and unload it again, you charge him 1/4 hour of "non-standard sawing".

It's not your problem that the log is useless, it's his.

Of course point this out first, and ask what he want to do, then it's his call to either load it on the mill, or drag it to the firewood pile.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 08:16:54 PM »
I handle it the same way my Dad always did-charge based on the log scale. If you bring me junk to saw(rotten or hollow logs)you pay on the volume that went through the mill--too bad for you if it's half rot! I realize there's overrun on a thin kerf saw,and you can lose a little board scale my way,but the time spent tallying each piece is worth something too.  I still scale logs with a NH caliper,which seems to be a bit generous on small to medium logs that make up most of what I cut.
Mike

+1

I'll explain why I think a log isn't worth the trouble, be it rot or too much sweep or whatever. but if the guy wants it cut regardless well... why should I be out of pocket because the logs are junk? They take just as long - often longer - to cut as good logs so... m3 rate is the same as to cut a good one. Yield is the customers problem.

I seem to spend a lot of time explaining to customers that you can't get a silk purse from a sows ear.  >:(
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline drobertson

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 08:20:30 PM »
This is a very fair approach, and on an hourly rate for a bigger log, say over 100 bdft scale, bout right, depending on price per bdft, and the hourly rate,  bad logs really should be pulled before loading, less there is a desired look one is looking for in the log,  communication is critical from the get go,    david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline jmouton

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 08:31:53 PM »
we are relatively new to the sawing of wood only a 1 and a half years  but thats why we charge by the hour , we have encountered this before  a couple of times ,  charging by the hour works for us  ,


                                                                                                              jim
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 09:35:50 PM »
All of you say go by the HR. But you already agreed to go by the bf What I'm asking is if the customer has 100 logs and 10 are junk and you tell the customer about the 10 and he  says cut them and their 1/2 rotten do you charge for the 1/2 rotten part ? I cut and charge for it all. Over the years I had customers that have not realized they can't use the rotten wood and did not want to pay for the rotting part. Now what?  :D same as if the customer brings you logs and 1/2 are rotting what do you do? There's no right answer I just want to know what others have done .
A&P saw Mill LLC.
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License NH softwood grader.

Offline AnthonyW

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 09:38:26 PM »
Has anyone thought about charging by the pass? I was thinking this could take into account the rotten logs, as well as the person that has a stack of 8" diameter logs cut where the ratio of cuts to usable bf is low.
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Offline fishpimp

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 09:54:05 PM »
Charge the rot myself . I got the time if they got the money!!
I hav been gettin a lot of smaller jobs that more than half were Mush.
Try 2 take the bad with good-

Offline woodyone.john

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 10:22:32 PM »
I charge on output! If in my opinion its not profitable to saw I dont,unless they tell me to do so.Then I charge by the hour for hopeless stuff our by the m3 for rotten split etc wood.My choice unless they say otherwise.
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 10:29:42 PM »
I never charge for boards I don't saw.  It costs the same to mill an FAS, Common, or junk board - by the board foot.  I advise them when we are getting to the junk and, if they want to keep going, I keep going.  Usually they agree that it is junk and we stop there and toss it.  First log... they'll hope to get anything, once the trailer starts getting full they are more selective.  Shorts, small diameters and specialty milling is usually by the hour anyway and if the logs are junk I'll explain it nicely but it is their choice. 
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2013, 10:35:43 PM »
All of you say go by the HR. But you already agreed to go by the bf What I'm asking is if the customer has 100 logs and 10 are junk and you tell the customer about the 10 and he  says cut them and their 1/2 rotten do you charge for the 1/2 rotten part ? I cut and charge for it all. Over the years I had customers that have not realized they can't use the rotten wood and did not want to pay for the rotting part. Now what?  :D same as if the customer brings you logs and 1/2 are rotting what do you do? There's no right answer I just want to know what others have done. 


Peter, what I do is advise the customer that any questionable quality logs where we would have to whittle away at the solid outside part will be extra handling, so therefore we would switch to an hourly rate.

The key is let the customer know ahead of time!
~Chuck~
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Offline Magicman

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2013, 10:39:36 PM »
Most bad logs that I encounter are ERC and I saw that hourly rate anyway.  When I am sawing other species and encounter a bad log, I may just ignore it, but if there is more than one or a significant amount of time is lost, I add that amount of hourly rate to the bill.  The customer is always there and he sees it too.

You can't make good lumber out of bad logs and you can't make chicken pie out of chicken mess.
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2013, 11:20:36 PM »
I charge by the board foot and since my customer's logs are dropped off at my site and they are not around to watch me saw I have them sign a relatively simple contract that states, among other things "excessively dirty, rotten, or insect infested logs will be rejected and not be sawn."  I have never had a customer be happy when I ask them to pay having sawn rotten logs so now I just simply won't saw them.  Although I believe that the customer is always (usually) right, I reserve the right to reject such logs, just as I reserve the right to reject logs with metal.  Some of this is also for my protection as rotten logs generally have bugs, maybe termites and such and I do everything I can not to contaminate my yard with their nasty logs. 
When the sawing is finished, I call up the customer, tell them the bill, yield, and quantity of reject logs, if any.  Then we discuss what he wants to do with them, either have me burn them or save them for him to pickup.  Invariably they appreciate not being charged for sawing poor yield logs that cost them money and ask me to roll the rejects into the burn pit. 
I've only had one customer accuse me of sandbagging and not sawing his logs so that I could have them later for myself. After asking if he wanted them back, which he didn't, he was surprised to see me grab them with the loader and drop them all into the fire.  He also learned that I reserve the right to reject bad customers as well as bad logs, and I never sawed for him again.
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Offline 5quarter

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2013, 01:25:42 AM »
Peter...you're doing it right. If your customer says saw it and you saw it, it goes in the tally, good or bad. Due to the nature of my saw jobs, I charge hourly 99% of the time. When I get a predictable run of logs on a job, I don't know what to do with myself.  ;)
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
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Offline backwoods sawyer

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2013, 01:39:50 AM »
When milling by the board foot I charge for the board foot that goes in the stack, however i encourage the customer to toss the junk into a seperate stack so as not to count it. if they are not there i toss it myself, this goes for broken boards as well.
if the log is junk, reject it, if the log is half junk recover the good wood and junk the rest.
junk is junk i would not want to be charged for it so why charge them for it?
really is it worth loosing customers over a few dollars worth of junk lumber?  :-\
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: How do you handle it
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2013, 07:10:11 AM »
When we used to do custom sawing, I had to tell one customer that the blade did not care if it was $10.00 a foot walnut or punky wood.  Board foot cost was the same.  He got to choose what was sawn.  Made it simple to decide what to do.
As a professional, it is your duty to advise your customer before hand so they can make the decision that would be in their best interests. 
It is not your duty to lose money to save the customer money by sawing for free.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.


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