Pole Saw

mocoon · November 30, 2013, 12:27:15 AM

Can someone please tell me their experiences with Pole Saws? You know, basically a telescoping weedeater with a about a 10 inch chainsaw bar at the end.

My uncle wants to get one for trimming trees for deer hunting. He runs all Stihl but their pole saws are 4 mix and I do not like that. I have had bad luck with the Shindaiwa c4 and Stihl 4 mix, however I haven't tried them out in some years (I tried them out when they first came out so maybe they have worked the bugs out by now).

beenthere · November 30, 2013, 12:37:22 AM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum
I have had a Stihl pole saw that has worked well for me, a good 15+ years now. Never has failed to perform well, start well, and not be any trouble.

How well does your Uncle like the Stihl 4 mix?

shootingarts · November 30, 2013, 01:08:31 AM

My brother bought a four cycle pole saw, brought it back because of issues. I don't remember, seems it wouldn't start after it was warm, could have been something different. Whatever it was they were eating so many of them they were totally unsurprised. He bought a two-cycle pole saw for mostly fencerow limb trimming, he has 2200 of fencerow, and a little misc. limb trimming and storm clean-up. Trimmed some limbs over six inches although I didn't put a tape measure on them. He has been very happy with the two cycle pole saw.

Matter of fact it was lost in a flood and he went out and bought another soon afterwards. He grabs the pole saw for the things I usually grab a small chainsaw for and we are both pretty happy with our choices. Of course I have never ran the pole saw although I have worked with him a lot when he was running it.

Hu

mocoon · November 30, 2013, 01:11:19 AM

He doesn't have any 4 mixes. He has all 2 cycles. I have a lawn business and use this kind of stuff every (Not chainsaws however, that is why I joined this forum to learn). The 2/4 stroke hybrids just don't last as long as an old fashion 2 stroke (or at least they didn't when I owned some around 8-9 years ago). But, I don't like a lot of the new "weedeater" 2 cycles now. Chainsaws and backpack blowers are different then these little 20-30cc range engines. The strato charged 2 strokes and cat converter 2 strokes just aren't like the stuff from the 90s. In fact, that is why I have a stockpile of brand-new-in-the-box trimmers from the late 90s to last me several more years -- I hope it will suffice.

However, if you guys like 4 mix, i'll tell him to get one (really, I can't imagine he is going to use it that must anyways, maybe 2 hours a year at the most). I would tell him just to get a cheap one at Lowes like a Ryobi since it once see much use but he is a FANATICAL Stihl fan.

ancjr · November 30, 2013, 01:24:10 AM

I have a stihl km90 with pole saw attachment and extension. Had 0 issues, save for tank check valve on the KM. That being said, I bought manual pole saw in July and have since not even looked at the Stihl. I can cut just as fast, more accurately, with less noise and strain on my back with the manual pole saw.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 01:26:05 AM

There is nothing wrong with the 4-mix type engine for the most part. The main issue with the early Stihl 4-mix engines, came down to bad fuel/oil and poor maintenance. I have a FS-110 and a Shindaiwa EB8510, and both have ran great on syn oil and valve adjustments every 2 to 3 years, which is incredibly easy to do. I just replaced the carb on my 110, but that had nothing to do with it being a 4-mix, as it's also 7 years old.

When it comes to pole pruners I like the Echos and the Stihl HT-101 and 131.

Ljohnsaw · November 30, 2013, 01:37:16 AM

OK, don't shoot me - I have an electric pole saw

, and love it (around the house). Quiet, pretty light and fast cutting. And pretty cheap to purchase. I would go get a small generator (1200 w for $150) and put it on my quad with a 50' cord if I needed to go out and about on my property. That would be great for me. Virtually no maintenance on the saw (stale gas) and if you had a propane kit on the generator, life would be good.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: mocoon on November 30, 2013, 01:11:19 AM
He doesn't have any 4 mixes. He has all 2 cycles. I have a lawn business and use this kind of stuff every (Not chainsaws however, that is why I joined this forum to learn). The 2/4 stroke hybrids just don't last as long as an old fashion 2 stroke (or at least they didn't when I owned some around 8-9 years ago). But, I don't like a lot of the new "weedeater" 2 cycles now. Chainsaws and backpack blowers are different then these little 20-30cc range engines. The strato charged 2 strokes and cat converter 2 strokes just aren't like the stuff from the 90s. In fact, that is why I have a stockpile of brand-new-in-the-box trimmers from the late 90s to last me several more years -- I hope it will suffice.

However, if you guys like 4 mix, i'll tell him to get one (really, I can't imagine he is going to use it that must anyways, maybe 2 hours a year at the most). I would tell him just to get a cheap one at Lowes like a Ryobi since it once see much use but he is a FANATICAL Stihl fan.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. First there are no more moving parts in a strato two cycle engine vs a non strato, and they're every bit as reliable. The 4 mix issue, wasn't really an issue, other than the operator not knowing how to take care of his equipment. Now Cat exhausts were really a stopgap maneuver buy the OPE manufactures because they were setting on their thumbs, and not investing in even a little bit of R&D. The good news is most have moved on passed cat mufflers.

(Rant removed by administrator. We just won't talk to each other that way here.)

mocoon · November 30, 2013, 01:45:42 AM

Andy, how much do you use the Shindaiwa 8510? I bought one new 8-9 years ago when they first came out. Blew up after literally only 20 hours of use (about 5 days in the fall). Shindaiwa gave me another. Same exact thing. I thought it was a fluke but it happened AGAIN. I told them to give me a refund and just went and bought a Redmax ebz8000 and now have 9 Redmax blowers and some with literally 3000 hours on them. After the 8510 experiment, I was pretty much turned off of the 2/4 hybrids. I hurried up and got rid of the other ones I had. Then, some years later I read that the 8510 was indeed the worst blower ever made -- which makes sense. But if yours is lasting, you must be doing something right.

I just can't figure out how the hybrids stay lubricated. So many parts too. Though, I did like how quiet they were. However, the hush mode and the turbo mode on the 8510 was a total gimmick.

beenthere · November 30, 2013, 01:46:26 AM

Andy
Not a very Forestry Forum kind of welcome to a new member. What's up?

mocoon · November 30, 2013, 01:54:17 AM

Andy, I don't like the strato because I think they run a little to lean. I had a bad experience a couple years back with a brand new Redmax trimmer (GZ30N) burn a hole through the piston. It was warrantied. Then I replaced it with a slightly smaller trimmer (GZ25N) and its great. A lot of strato charged engines are cold blooded, from my experience. And Andy, I have owned a lot of all kinds of engines. I use 2 cycles for a living and usually get around 1500 hours out of them before I replace. No, I am not a mechanical wiz or an engineer, but I am speaking from MY experiences. I use opti-2 oil slightly above or at the recommended mix ratio. I break in new equipment with the manufacturers bottle of oil they give you when you buy new units. It is not "hearsay," as you say, but my experience over the years.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 02:10:38 AM

Quote from: mocoon on November 30, 2013, 01:45:42 AM
Andy, how much do you use the Shindaiwa 8510? I bought one new 8-9 years ago when they first came out. Blew up after literally only 20 hours of use (about 5 days in the fall). Shindaiwa gave me another. Same exact thing. I thought it was a fluke but it happened AGAIN. I told them to give me a refund and just went and bought a Redmax ebz8000 and now have 9 Redmax blowers and some with literally 3000 hours on them. After the 8510 experiment, I was pretty much turned off of the 2/4 hybrids. I hurried up and got rid of the other ones I had. Then, some years later I read that the 8510 was indeed the worst blower ever made -- which makes sense. But if yours is lasting, you must be doing something right.

I just can't figure out how the hybrids stay lubricated. So many parts too. Though, I did like how quiet they were. However, the hush mode and the turbo mode on the 8510 was a total gimmick.

The 8510 did have issues. However if you knew what to do they will run for years under heavy use. One issue was airflow over the cylinder would get blocked off by leaves, if you didn't clean them out the engine would overheat and pop the head gasket. Then you had exhaust cans that were too thin. The hot exhaust gases over time would create holes, and sometime these holes would be near the fuel tank, not good. The valves and cam also wore a bit faster than Shin thought they would with bad fuel/oil. What can I say, it was the first of it's kind.The early Stihl BR600's had even worse issues. Carbon buildup and valves made from tinfoil lol. I have probably 1000 hours on my 8510 and it runs like new and likely will for some time. With anything it comes down to understanding your equipment and how to maintain it properly.

I wasn't trying to belittle you in my previous post, I simply hear a lot of this or that, and most of it is simply ignorance about something newer on the market.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 02:12:00 AM

DP Sorry.

mocoon · November 30, 2013, 02:20:59 AM

Yes I understand. I think it is more of a unit to unit basis, model to model. I had great luck with a small (forgot the model) blue Shindaiwa handheld c4 that lasted sometime (still running good). Then, all of my stratocharged backpack redmaxs are running very good and never had a problem. The 8510 may be just that I literally bought them the week they came out. I think they went to an 8520 soon after. I have started running 93 octane non-ethanol fuel and I think it helps a lot. Also, I kind of think that the recommend mix ratios are a little low. I think its probably for the emissions. I have started to add more oil than is recommended just for a little insurance. I have so many machines I am always trying to clean them and maintain them. I really almost feel instead of getting a bachelor's of business I would have been better served going to tech school and learning small engine mechanics. :D

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 02:33:34 AM

Quote from: mocoon on November 30, 2013, 01:54:17 AM
Andy, I don't like the strato because I think they run a little to lean. I had a bad experience a couple years back with a brand new Redmax trimmer (GZ30N) burn a hole through the piston. It was warrantied. Then I replaced it with a slightly smaller trimmer (GZ25N) and its great. A lot of strato charged engines are cold blooded, from my experience. And Andy, I have owned a lot of all kinds of engines. I use 2 cycles for a living and usually get around 1500 hours out of them before I replace. No, I am not a mechanical wiz or an engineer, but I am speaking from MY experiences. I use opti-2 oil slightly above or at the recommended mix ratio. I break in new equipment with the manufacturers bottle of oil they give you when you buy new units. It is not "hearsay," as you say, but my experience over the years.

All new small engines come tuned too lean!!! IMHO. Most require a simple carb adjustment. What happened is emission regulations kicked in and the OPE manufactures weren't ready, so they added cats and or leaned out the carb's, add ethanol fuel, and things got too hot, too fast. Running an engine lean creates heat, and in an air cooled engine, without an oil sump, that's really bad news. The sad part about this is the fact most dealers know littler about the products they sell, a simple carb adjustment would have solved the issues with your strato equipment. A good dealer will tune the carb when you buy the piece of equipment, and they should tell you to bring in back after a few hours of use, so they can tune it after break in. Obviously the best solution is to learn how to tune your own equipment.

When it comes to starting a cold strato. Because of the porting they do take a little longer to warm up, but after that they will run like, or better than a non strato engine. If not the carb needs a simple adjustment, just like any other handheld OPE.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 02:44:16 AM

Quote from: mocoon on November 30, 2013, 02:20:59 AM
Yes I understand. I think it is more of a unit to unit basis, model to model. I had great luck with a small (forgot the model) blue Shindaiwa handheld c4 that lasted sometime (still running good). Then, all of my stratocharged backpack redmaxs are running very good and never had a problem. The 8510 may be just that I literally bought them the week they came out. I think they went to an 8520 soon after. I have started running 93 octane non-ethanol fuel and I think it helps a lot. Also, I kind of think that the recommend mix ratios are a little low. I think its probably for the emissions. I have started to add more oil than is recommended just for a little insurance. I have so many machines I am always trying to clean them and maintain them. I really almost feel instead of getting a bachelor's of business I would have been better served going to tech school and learning small engine mechanics. :D

Many of the larger blowers have fixed jet, rotary valve carbs. This helps them run at different throttle positions, and most of the time provides more than enough fuel. More oil without adjusting, or the ability to adjust the carb isn't the best idea, it can create heat/lean issues. Blower's and trimmer run fine on good 50:1 mix. Higher octane will also help lower head temperatures. Chainsaws turn more rpm's, make more power, and are ran harder, I run 32:1 mix in my saws, and tune them differently.

Jiles · November 30, 2013, 12:38:39 PM

I have a Stihl HT250. This is a regular 2 stroke but the owners manual states it is 4mix. I have no idea why. You might want to keep that in mind.
I really like this saw because I can use the same bar as I use on my 200T.
I didn't like the fact that it is used much like a grass trimmer in relation to reach.
I solved the problem by doing a little modification to mine, and it made it much more useable by increasing the reach by over a foot-- I tried to post a photo but cannot.

jjw · November 30, 2013, 12:56:42 PM

I just bought a Husky 327PT5S last week and couldn't be happier with it.
I needed to take down a 40yr old almond tree between 2 buildings with the
power supply to the house running through the tree. Only ran 3 tanks through
it so far but well pleased with it. Extends to 156" and about 17lbs. Easy to start and
cuts well, fully extended it is relatively rigid unlike some of the smaller saws.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 02:08:28 PM

I could be wrong, but I believe the 327 has a cat muffler, I personally do not recommend any equipment with a cat muffler.

jjw · November 30, 2013, 03:17:18 PM

Quote from: Andyshine77 on November 30, 2013, 02:08:28 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe the 327 has a cat muffler, I personally do not recommend any equipment with a cat muffler.

You're more than likely right, I believe C.A.R.B. regulations here in Ca. require anything under 40cc
to have a CAT muffler on it. Not 100% sure tho.

ZeroJunk · November 30, 2013, 05:29:49 PM

I have the Stihl HT-131 and it is a hoss. But, it is also hard on your shoulders. I think if I had it to do over I would get the HT-101.

Philbert · November 30, 2013, 05:39:06 PM

Don't overlook a manual pole saw for occasional use. With a good blade they work very well. And if you get sectional poles, instead of a telescoping pole, you can get additional reach.

I also have a consumer, corded electric pole saw. It is lightweight, but OK for home / neighborhood use if you keep the chain sharp and let the tool do the work.

This week I got a chance to try a beta-version of a new Oregon, 40 Volt, battery powered pole saw, doing some storm clean-up in Illinois. Worked very well, even though temps were 10 - 22*F. It is also pretty quiet.

Could be a good choice to consider.

Philbert

Offthebeatenpath · November 30, 2013, 05:58:29 PM

I second Philbert's comment. I have an 2 stroke echo power pruner, and although it has it's place, my manual pole saws see much much more use, both from me and my employees who are younger and stronger.

We sometimes run the power pruner for lower, larger branches, and the manual for up stuff above 10-12 feet. I realize I may not have the newest, lightest, or most powerful power pruner and that certainly may make a difference, but I'm still partial to the quiet, engineless versions. I've used a lot of different pole saws and I would put the Silky saws head and shoulders above the rest. Not cheap, but worth it. The Hayauchi in particular is my favorite. It extends to 21' which allows you to cut up to well over 25' and the blade out cuts any other I've used.

Andyshine77 · November 30, 2013, 06:21:19 PM

Quote from: jjw on November 30, 2013, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on November 30, 2013, 02:08:28 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe the 327 has a cat muffler, I personally do not recommend any equipment with a cat muffler.
You're more than likely right, I believe C.A.R.B. regulations here in Ca. require anything under 40cc
to have a CAT muffler on it. Not 100% sure tho.

No they don't have to have a cat, just have to meet a standard. Most now do that in other ways. Strato and auto tune systems mostly. Stihl has a few conventional designs, that simply improve efficiency through port design, and have even added a case stuffer in some chainsaw models. The MS 461 and 661 to be exact.

CAT mufflers on these engines hasn't worked very well. You have all that trapped heat right on the exhaust side of the piston, not good! lots of failures.

I just replaced a bent drive shaft on a HT-101. Very nice tool, but it does have some weight to it.

angelo c · November 30, 2013, 08:30:09 PM

Andre, the shaft is always a weak link on the pole saws. Operator is the weakest link though as he usually pinches the saw more often then he will admit to and of course pulls on the darn thing until ...well until the shaft needs replacing. Were you the only user of yours or was it a shop tool that the trained chimps wrestle with ?