Making long beams

[Beefie]

I have been searching the net and can not seam to find any pictures or descriptions on how to make a long beam, 24' is what I want to make.

I am buying a 36" Alaskan mill and the mini mill.

The reason for the purchase is I plan on building a new hunting shack this coming up spring. The shack will be 30'long buy 24' deep. I want to have a loft over one end with a log squared up to resemble a D- shape , with the flat of the d facing up to nail t&g flooring to.

Tried searching and found a lot on band mills but not much on Alaskan style, your guys experience would be of great help.

Beefie

[beenthere]

"make a long beam"

Meaning sawing one out of a log using the Alaskan?

Or do you mean laying up a wood beam that would span 24' ? 

Any posts planned to support this beam?

[Beefie]

Yes making a 24' beam out of a log. Using a Alaskan style sawmill. I was hoping to not have a support beam in the span but I think I might need to.

My other thought is to mill some 3-4" wide X 10"-12"deep X 24' long. I might split it to 12' with a bearing wall.

Beefie

[mikeb1079]

one way i've seen how to cut long timbers with an alaskan style csm is to pull two mason strings taut along the length of the log, but suspended above it a couple of inches.  then you drive in nails or lag screws to the established string line.  now you have a level surface to reference.  the guy i saw doing this then used a flat 2x10x10' as the guide board and just advanced this guide board along the entire length of the log as he made the cut.  in this instance i'm reminded of the phrase:  "a picture is worth a thousand words".   :D :D :

anyways, i'll try to find one.   

actually, now that i think of it you could just use 2x4x whatever length, level the ends and then tack enough together along the length of the log to make your guide rails.....i know, i know...pics are better.   ;)

[HaroldSiefke]

Here are some pictures of how to make long beams with your Alaskan mill...Hope this helps. Harold

  

    

  

[Beefie]

Harold that is excellent, is that from the book from Will Malloff "Chainsaw lumbermaking"? Those pictures show a bunch. When I get my Alaskan I plan on making a video on milling long lumber, cants . Just to be able to help others out with there searches.

I really need to find one of those books.

Beefie

[Beefie]

Thanks Mike , I have heard the technique that you described, I think the pictures that Harold posted helped a lot. Im guessing that a person just slides a plank down the length of the tree as you cut?

Beefie

[HaroldSiefke]

Yes they are from chainsaw lumber making by Will Malloff. Yes it is a very great book I use to do a lot of chainsaw milling before I got my band mill. I only use it now when stuff needs to be smaller for my band mill.

[mikeb1079]

Im guessing that a person just slides a plank down the length of the tree as you cut?

that's the way i've seen it documented, though i've never done it myself.   

[terrifictimbersllc]

I've done it, one sets lag screws appropriately, using a tight string, to support whatever one is using as a straightedge guide for the mill. They must be deep enough and spaced properly to allow moving or sliding of the straightedge guide from one end of the log, to the other.  One might also use lags to support the straightedge at mid-span if it will tend to sag.

[Brucer]

I used Wil Malloff's method for a good many years and it worked really well. I used a 10' 2x12 guide board with a pair of 2" x 2" x1/8" angles screwed to the underside. Lag screws were spaced 4' apart so the board was always resting on 3 pairs of supports. That prevented sagging and made it easier to slide the board. The angles kept the board from sliding or vibrating off the lag screws; they also saved a lot of wear and tear on the board.

There's no limit on the length you can cut with this method.

[Beefie]

Thanks guys for taking the time to explain the method. Once I get the mill I will beable to hopefully apply what I have learned from you guys. I see that I will have to get Will Malloffs book. Just to much info in it not to have.

Brucer you mentioned vibration. Does the board vibrate around when you are milling or does it just move around on the beginning and ends of the cut?

I'm sure more things will get more apparent once I start using the mill, just trying to save some learning curve and waste.

Beefie

[kensfarm]

I had used just one board tied to the log w/ a rope for 12ft or shorter cuts.. simple, fast.  Then multiple boards nailed together for beam cutting.  I ended up making a railing system w/ sliding barn door parts.  I still have my Alaskan mill.. and some of the lumber I made w/ it.. haven't used it in a while.  Those are great pictures.

[Beefie]

Kensfarm do you have any pictures of your rail setup? That sounds interesting and I have some rails of that left over from a project.

Beefie

[Brucer]

Whatever a running chainsaw touches is going to vibrate. It gets worse then the chain hits the log. I don't mean earthquake type vibration, just small and steady. Anything I put on top of the guide board would tend to slide off (you quickly find out that things aren't as level as you thought.

I think Wil's book is out of print but if you can get your hands on one it is a fantastic reference. Lots of good pictures on just about everything you need to know. You can probably find used copies for sale, or see if the local library has one. I sold my copy (and my Alaskan mill) the year after I bought my first Wood-Mizer. I don't miss the mill but I sometimes wish I'd kept the book.

One other tip for clean surfaces and less vibration -- insert kerf wedges every few feet on both sides of the cut. They keep the kerf from closing down on the back of the chain.

[kensfarm]

Kensfarm do you have any pictures of your rail setup? That sounds interesting and I have some rails of that left over from a project.

Beefie

I know where it's at.. on the bottom of a pile.. I'll try to get a couple pictures when I go over to the barn later.    Ken

[Alyeska Pete]

Beefie,

Send me a PM and I'll send you a .pdf copy of Will Malloff's book.  I don't think I'm allowed to post any external links here so I'll have to email it to you. It's 228 pages of great info and it's about a 38mb file.

Pete

[Beefie]

Alyeska Pete Thanks for the reply PM inbound. It would be nice to have on the computer for reference. I think I will still buy a book to have with me while cutting for the just in case what ifs.

Beefie

[Jim_Rogers]

If you are going to make a long timber out of one log you need to make sure that the center of the log is in the center of the beam, left to right and up and down, on each end. To do this you have to adjust your setup so that the saw will cut level with the center of the tree/log, taking more off the butt end then the top end.
This is what the taper controls do on a sawmill.
You need to establish a method to do this on your log with a chainsaw mill.

Jim Rogers

[Beefie]

Ok Jim I think I understand what your saying. If the butt end is say 20" in diameter and the top end is 14" in diameter with the center "heart" of the tree being in the center. Your only going to get a 12"x12" cant out of it. correct? so on the but I would have my starter boards say 1" above the top of the cant mark and on the other end the same but there would be less wood behind the top end.

I think there is a picture in this thread that is showing what your are saying.

Beefie

[Jim_Rogers]

If you want to figure out a the size of a timber you can get out of log you need to measure the diameter of the narrow end of the log. That would be the diagonal of the beam from opposite corner to opposite corner. For example a 8x8 takes a 11 3/8" diameter log.

One way to figure your corner to corner distance is to measure the distances on a framing square. If you measure 8" up on side to 8" up the other side you should get a diagonal measurement of about 11 3/8".

When creating timbers with a sawmill, I plan where my last cut is going to be, first. Then plan on the cuts above that last cut so that I make planks or boards on my way to that last cut. Planning your last cut first is something you need to understand and layout so that your timber comes out to the correct size. Again with the center of the tree in the center of your timber. That way it will be stable and strong.

Jim Rogers

[Beefie]

Thanks Jim for the help on how to figure out cants/beams. I understand what you are saying on figure last cut first and make what you can out of the waste that takes to get to the finale cut.

Beefie

[Brucer]

Since logs are rarely perfectly round or perfectly straight, you usually need to add a bit to the "ideal" diameter. Arky used the "half again" rule. Multiply the width of a square timber by 1.5 to get the log diameter that will comfortably give you the timber you want.

[OneWithWood]

Is there a way to prevent a center cut beam from splitting?  Many of the beams I have cut from tulip poplar check or split badly when I center the pith in the beam. 

[mesquite buckeye]

We call that normal. ;D

The Japanese used to rip beams/timbers halfway in on one side to concentrate all the splitting forces on that one line, which just opens up a bit as the timber dries. Then that line can go on a side that is not seen, and the other faces are relatively clean.

You could do the same thing running a skill saw down a snap line. Even if it doesn't go all the way to the center, you have created a line of weakness where all the forces will concentrate, then the cut will open and the cut-center wood will just crack along the cut line. ;D 8) 8) 8)