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Author Topic: Different rate for ERC?  (Read 2505 times)

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Offline NCDiesel

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Different rate for ERC?
« on: January 27, 2014, 01:10:48 PM »
I was researching rates, and came across two different posts from two different people (POSTON and MagicMan I think) that charge hourly for ERC even though they ordinarily charge by the board foot.  They did not mention why in the post.

I have never sawn ERC and was curious why.   Is it difficult?   Because log sizes are normally small?   Just curious .

Thanks in advance!
NCDiesel
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 01:22:40 PM »
Yes, it's hourly rate for me sawing ERC. 

Since the logs are generally fluted, may have ingrown bark, and often contain rot inside, it is easy to spend time sawing and and not have any or very little measurable lumber.  Also, customers often want the widest boards possible so measuring 7, 4, and 8 inch wide boards become problematic.  Then there are the different thicknesses and the customer may decide that he wants a mantel out of the center of the log after you have it set up for something else.

None of the above affects my hourly rate charges.
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Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 03:43:47 PM »
Magic is correct. In addition to what he has said, Most of the Cedar logs I get in have to have the knots and small limbs chain sawed off of them.
Most have to be sawn to length since they were logged out of the woods by machinery and brought straight to the mill. All my time adds up.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Offline Cedarman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 06:01:17 PM »
There is a reason the margin (difference in price per board foot in the log and price per board foot of good ERC lumber) is so much larger than most other species.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline drobertson

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 09:45:40 PM »
there several ways to look at it.  There may be nubs to trim, there may be fluted logs, and they may be small.
They may be purchased, or custom sawn.  If they are bought, knock off for the excessive nubs, scale accordingly to the flutes and know you limits on the small end.  They saw fast if they are slicked off.  A pain if you have to deal with the unattended nubs.  Know what it takes for at least a 4x4, and don't discount the slabs, they will sell. They last a long time when banded.  Custom sawing must be discussed up front.  Flutes mean in grown bark which means loose and separating boards at sometime.  Most folks will go for it, some will find out later.  Time can be made on ERC, there will be waste as any other wood, as mentioned, the value is in the finish product and availability of it.    david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline LeeB

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 08:44:17 AM »
I have been known to saw them 2 at a time.
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Offline Larry

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 10:06:49 AM »
I agree with the others in that ERC lumber production is slower than other species.

ERC does have some redeeming qualities.  I usually don't have as many flitches to edge.  Slabs and lumber are lighter to handle (important for us older guys).  I saw 4/4 ERC thinner usually at the 1 and a lot of times even thinner so I get more boards out of a log.  It also saws a lot faster than the rest, but the hard little knots still dull the band.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline shelbycharger400

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 10:20:28 AM »
I've noticed in the past, if you leave the knots on for mantles and bench stock, it's a lot harder cutting through that knot that changed grain direction. Also that bark really loves to hold the sand

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 10:53:36 AM »
I've noticed in the past, if you leave the knots on for mantles and bench stock, it's a lot harder cutting through that knot that changed grain direction. Also that bark really loves to hold the sand
Yeah, that bark can be a pain. Comes off in long strings and plugs up my sawdust blower..
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 11:08:53 AM »
As badly as I dislike sawing ERC, I still love it.  It smells just like money.
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 02:18:16 PM »
As magicman says, ERC, money, money, money. :D :D :D
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline Farmerjw

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 02:49:51 PM »
May I please interrupt and ask, "what does ERC mean"?   ???
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 03:08:02 PM »
Eastern Red Cedar
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Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 03:15:06 PM »
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Offline mesquite buckeye

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 05:18:04 PM »
Re: fluting and defect in ERC. Fluting appears to be genetically controlled, the main selective benefit being resistance to debarking and subsequent death by animals like buck whitetails or buffalo, or for trees with a longer memory, giant ground sloths, mammoths and mastodons. If you manage your cedar stands, the fluted trees can be culled out early in the rotation, resulting in more perfections (as in: It's a perfection! (border spanglish)).

I suspect that rot and defect result from a combination of susceptible individuals combined with conditions favorable for the development of the fungus. I think management can help here too. Kill every tree with a conk on it and prune and thin the stand to open it up for more air, thus lower humidity and a less favorble environment for the fungus. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 07:46:20 PM »
As a general rule, any Cedar means extra handling, which equals time!
~Chuck~
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Offline paulT

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2014, 08:53:58 PM »
I am enjoying the ERC subject. I just took delivery today of this.

 

Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2014, 09:09:49 PM »
I wish something like that would pull up in my yard. Pretty good Paul!
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Offline Farmerjw

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2014, 09:57:18 PM »
Thank you for educating me folks.  Paul, that load would be a lifetime of pen blanks, bowl blanks and whatever else I could think of!!
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: Different rate for ERC?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 07:53:22 AM »
Paul, I hope you have clamps on your loader.  A load like that is a bear to unload without fork clamps.  We have had 150 tons come in in the last few days and expect that much more in a few days.  Even with clamps, still takes 45 minutes to unload.

Mesquite,  I think environmental or soil conditions can have a big effect on rot in cedar.  There is an area about 1 1/2 miles wide and 6 miles long where 1/2 the trees have rot.  It is not the speckled rot sprinkled through the log, but a white ring, sometimes 2 or 3 smaller white rings that form when the tree didn't form heartwood at the proper time.  Those white rings can rot out completely leaving a tree within a tree.  I have racked my brain trying to figure out what cause these trees to do this.  I am thinking that the soil is poorly drained as the cause.  ERC hates wet feet.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.


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