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Author Topic: New guy with a Belsaw M14  (Read 5137 times)

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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2014, 09:31:45 PM »
Some of the guys that run auto or truck engines install an after market cruse control, which is nothing but a governor. I have never done it myself but they will work. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2014, 02:16:38 AM »
OK Brad, You solved the mystery, pm your # and we can talk and come over and look at my and (mostly my dads) old iron. Check out what we learned about setting up a belsaw. Pretty sure I saw your truck/trailer at emerald this morning on my way to work.

Yeah That was me.   I was on my way back from Edgewood.  We had four units of cedar on the trailer and about 300 fascia in the back of the truck!   I was sweating bullets going up the hill into Edgewood!   It was all wet fenceboards, about 14k behind me.

I picked up the the ol flathead engine today.  Its pretty nice.  Ill get some pics tomorrow in the light.


Thanks Fred, Ill shoot ya my number.  Be nice to see ya again.


Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2014, 02:22:46 AM »
Im kinda fascinated with the cruise control governor.

I think will have to look into the speedo cable hookup and see if the old ford could be adapted.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2014, 12:27:07 PM »
Chop, the after market cruise controls are real easy to hook up. They don't work off the speedo. A small magnet glued to any rotating part and an electronic pickup coil. Needs a vacuum hose to the intake manifold and a small chain to the throttle arm. Much more flexible than a mechanical governor. That old flat head ford is a good one. They are a bit prone to loose wrist pins..
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Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2014, 04:19:43 PM »
Can  Belsaw be hooked up to direct?  No belts?

It seems as if all the automotive style ones I see are hooked up with belts and pulley at some point.

I see tractor ones run off of pto directly.  The tractor has a clutch for the slip point.

Are the belts and clutches a safety device thats needed?  Or can they be direct drive?

I have noticed people complain about belt and clutch slippage so would eliminating them be better?



I figure an engine running at 2000rpm and a 4 to 1 ratio gearbox would put me right at the 500rpm arbor/blade speed needed.

Am I all wrong here?

Offline Cutting Edge

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2014, 06:36:33 PM »

Are the belts and clutches a safety device thats needed?


Yes, very much so.  When things go horribly bad, you'll be glad you have some sort of break in the power transmission.  Safety First!  Equipment hooked up direct with no means of disengaging the power source is a recipe for disaster... it can happen before you have time to react.

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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2014, 08:35:15 PM »
The normal engine like your flathead ford turns right, a tractor PTO turns left. In other words if you hooked the ford up direct it would turn the saw backwards. You could turn the engine around with a jackshaft, in other words the fan facing the mill. A transmission in reverse would do if you could get enough speed to the arbor. Mills other than Belsaw have the arbor on the sawyers side of the mill and can use a right turning engine. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2014, 08:42:28 PM »
I forgot to add there are some left hand mills that can be powered with a tractor PTO on the sawyers side. No one ever said it was simple. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Brian_Rhoad

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2014, 08:49:26 PM »
Here's a place for cruise controls.

http://www.rostra.com/index.php

Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2014, 08:49:57 PM »
Well are al belsaws run the same way?  right/left only one?  I see blades get hammered for right and left.   Does the saws arbor threads determine/dictate what direction the blade can rotate?


I want to put the engine sideways on the mill trailer. Then put the power around the corner with a ring and pinion   There would still be the clutch at the flywheel for disengaging/engaging things.

Can the clutch be considered the "safety"?  or maybe I can put in a softer key on the arbor shaft?   Seems like the only safety on a tractor is the clutch and PTO shear pin.

I just want to avoid belts if I can.

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2014, 08:56:23 PM »
Are you going to use an old rear end for the ring and pinion? You could rig up a brake master cylinder so that you applied the brake to engage the blade. :D
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2014, 09:28:23 PM »
Chops, I believe all Belsaws are right hand mills. If your standing facing the saw and the carriage passes on your right its a right hander, if it passes on the left its a left hand. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Chop Shop

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2014, 09:40:53 PM »
Are you going to use an old rear end for the ring and pinion? You could rig up a brake master cylinder so that you applied the brake to engage the blade. :D

Thats a sweet idea!  Ive seen lots of hay loaders that worked like that.  My friend George's belsaw is ran that way.  His is a 292 chev 6 with the tranny feeding an old rear axle with one brake drum fixed so only the other one turns.  Then the other drum runs a flat belt pulley with a flat belt to the mill.  It has a twist in the flat belt to correct the direction.

I dont want an axletube hanging off the side of my trailer tho.   I was planning to use a 4x4 front diff.  That would have a flange (for an axle) right next to the diff and the other flange/axle tube (longer axle) would be removed and capped off.   That would give me a very small right angle gearbox that holds lots of gear lube and is FREE.   I have the option of 3.9, 4.1, 4.3, 4.6, 4.9 and 5.3 to one gear ratios with this choice in diffs.

The flange would be easy to mount a sprocket to and use a chain drive.

I like the idea of using one axle as the engage/dissengage lever and just eliminating a clutch and possible transmission.  but it would double the RMPs after going thru a diff.  Thus making the lowest gears in the box turn out to only a 2.65 or so reduction, not the four to one I hope will work best.


I think I will draw up a simple plan and start a Build Thread thats not cluttered with intro stuff.

Offline Tripp

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2014, 10:16:57 PM »
Ran my belsaw with an inline six cylinder Toyota land cruiser motor for a couple of years. Started out with an electronic cruise control. The cruise control worked ok. Switched over to a belt drive governor and the engine worked even better.  I would recommend a governor over a cruise control.

Now running a Detroit with a built in governor. Mo betta!

Tripp

Offline iwiegian

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2014, 10:40:25 PM »
All gas powered combines and win-rower's that had auto engines in them like the slat six dodge and others had belt driven governors. I have one from an m gleaner.

I have a 6.2 chevy diesel that I would like try powering my belsaw with eventually.

Offline Dave_

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2014, 11:11:21 AM »
Chops, I believe all Belsaws are right hand mills. If your standing facing the saw and the carriage passes on your right its a right hander, if it passes on the left its a left hand. Frank C.

I came across a left handed Belsaw.  It had a real shallow carriage.  Kinda an odd ball for a Belsaw.  I bought it, but never set it up.

Offline Little Jim

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2014, 10:43:00 PM »
Good Luck to you New guy with a Belsaw M14. I have one that I like a great deal that saws very accurate lumber. I saw on it just about every Saturday.  Yes you have to have enough power to run it but it does not have to be excessive. I saw all the time with an old "H Farmall" with no issue at all. I regularly saw 20-22" White/Red Oak and Yellow pine. The key to sawing is taking care of all the little things such as set-up on a good foundation, level lengthwise as well as front to rear. The blade needs to be running true standing up straight & true in the cut with the correct good fitted shanks, sharp bits filed square, saw hung square with the carriage, with both knees advancing equally and square with the carriage. If you have all these little detailed things squared away your little mill will saw pretty lumber for you with relative light power it you let it take its time and saw.  Build you a good log deck to take the brunt of turning logs & cants. The hard part is not the sawing, it is handling the 1500-2000 pound logs on the deck and carriage! There is a great deal of good information out there on the Belsaw M-14.  We are blessed by many old men that came before us that figured have already figured much of this out for us. You just have to dig it out. Make no mistake I love my little mill and it does a great job for me as a hobby. However, it is a little farmers mill for sawing out things needed on the farm powered most times by a farm tractor's PTO. You can never compare it to one of the old Fricks, Meadows, Vance, Turner's, Moffit's, or Corleys. These were old production mills that built our nation and were built to take the brunt of heavy work day in and day out. Listen to the old "Bandmiller Frank" He will give you some good advice. Good luck to you and be careful. Ease into it kind of slow until you learn what your are doing. Little Jim from down in North Carolina.

Offline apm

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2014, 09:00:42 AM »
Anybody interested in Belsaws should take a look at Little Jim's gallery. He's got quite the operation, there. Very impressive.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Offline hardtailjohn

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2014, 11:27:07 AM »
Chop Shop, mine's set up running direct through a drive line from a Chrysler industrial, through a 3 speed transmission in reverse. There's a cable running the clutch connected to a pedal at the sawyer's position so you can throw it out if you need to. There's also a throttle and the key right near there.  It's worked that way for the previous owner for over 30 years, so I figured it's good enough for me!
 

 

You can see the clutch "pedal" just to the right of the sawyer's lever here. It latches in the disengaged position when you want, but normally is engaged.
 

 

John
I'm so far behind, I think I'm ahead!

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: New guy with a Belsaw M14
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2014, 08:45:42 PM »
Little Jim, you have a dandy setup there and a nice building. What do you use for power.?? Your Belsaw  looks like its new. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece


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