Canadian Timberland?

[luke]

The prices that I have seen on canadian timberland and real estate are a little higher or about the same as in the U.S. I had an idea to buy canadian property with U.S. dollars because of the exchange rates U.S. dollars are worth a little more than Canadian dollars, but the Canadian properties are priced as high or higher than the U.S. properties so I would not be saving any. Anyways just an idea that I had on the exchange rates, certain times and situations buying certain things might come out good, a subject that I need to study more :P.

Although I think that Canada is a peaceful place, it may be difficult to become a citizen there. I like peace the bible says in Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God."
I don't know if the quality of life there is higher than in the U.S. but if it si, that would be another reason to move there, something else to study. :P
Forwarders in certain  situations can be feasible as well.

Luke

[slowzuki]

I'll try and keep politics out of it but I'd say the timber/land prices and quality of life issues are about even on both sides of the border.

I suspect there are some tax and duty implications that may influence whether owning Canadian land could be profitable for US loggers.

Were I live, Crabbe Lumber is a very agressive purchaser, they will come along and offer 1000$ an acre for almost any land you have.  The rumor is it somehow affects their alotment for Crown harvest but I didn't see that in Swampy's desciption earlier.

My wood is classified as "farm woodlot" and only taxed at 1$ per ha (1 ha is about 2.5 ac).  It is hard to buy more land here due to Crabbe's buying even poor land at the high prices.  No one wants to sell at fair value.

Ken

[SwampDonkey]

Slozuki:

Crabbe don't buy at high prices , they are like the Hudson Bay Company motto, 'Wait and Seize'. ;) No they get alot of land through intergenerational transfers and from old folks that have to sell out to cover health care costs in the home. See, most folks don't have the capital to be able to buy sizeable woodlots, 200 acres or more. Just recently I was told they bought 450 acres at $100,000 from an old gentleman. My source is quite reliable, since I do all their cruising. The grandson went ape over it. You definately will not get top dollar from Crabbe unless its wall to wall mature spruce and you have alot of competition over it, which is mute now a-days. Buying private doesn't effect their crown allocation, they are a sublicensee. Not many private producers sell wood to them because their price is low, not even 1 % of our marketing board softwood sales go to Crabbe. Fraser takes about 60 % of our softwood sales ($5 Million). ;) Alot, of people believe that  McCain Foods or Valley Farms pay top dollar too and couldn't be farther from the truth. Alot of there land was aquired through default on their potato contracts. And they take bankrupt land off the banks hands for a reduced price. The bank can't afford to sit of a piece of realestate for long, most of there $$ is in investments making money and idle realestate doesn't generate income. They need to liquidate it to cover the loss of a bankruptcy. This SwampDonkey has been around, and you can take that to the bank. ;) :D

[Kevin]

I spoke with a cutter today that works for an American company that has purchased five townships in this area.
A Canadian firm has also bought some but I haven't heard how many.

[SwampDonkey]

Here is a profile from the Logging and Sawmilling Journal on using the Ergo harvester and Buffalo forwarder. I know both the owner and the Forest Tech in the article. (March 2004 issue)

cheers

[slowzuki]

Thanks for the info Swampy,  Crabbe bought about 1/2 my neighbours 450 acres of mature fir/spruce for 1000$ and acre.  I secretly hoped to get the rest but they wouldn't sell for less than 1000$ an acre after having sold to Crabbe at that price.  A scale operator from Saint-Anne Nackawic bought the rest of it for a non-disclosed price.  I would of had to work the land to be able to afford it, and I don't have time for that right now.  Too bad too cause it is a much more enjoyable job!

Why do Crabbe hold onto clearcut land in our area?  Is it just a matter of approaching them with the right offer?

Saint-Anne got into a legal kerfuffle over the back swamp on our property prior to us purchasing it, the previous owner paid taxes on 100 acres of theirs since 1949.  They came to him in 2002 to ask permission to put a road on it and he didn't even realize he was shown as owning more than 5 acres of it.  His brother was dying of cancer and they were busy so he signed some paper they gave him and never saw Saint Anne again.  They adjusted the line and he lost even those 5 acres he had always worked.  I wonder what Saint Anne would sell it to us for?

Ken

[SwampDonkey]

Crabbe aren't inclined to sell forest land, clearcut or not. They may trade land on occassion, but rarely unless its a great benefit and usually its isolate crown blocks adjacent to their own. For a forest company the land has long term future benefits and the tax of forest land is insignificant. So often I here of woodlot owners complaining of forest land taxes, its so inconsequential to me. : There is a crownland exchange program in New Brunswick, link to the site on my website under Silviculture Activities/Silviculture Links. But, the forest land your trading has to be of equal value and you have to pay for an independent appraissal, plus the exchange fee. Under my Timber Inventory link (at bottom of page) there is info for folks that operate a woods business and want to purchase forest land by financing through Farm Credit Canada. Working the woods has his benefits, but in the last few years the operating costs have been escalating near the break even point and the price of primary forest products has not kept up with this inflation. Just like farming, ask the professional loggers and farmers on this site. ;)

[leweee]

I'll second that notion... being a farmer for too many years! :