The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts





Author Topic: band thickness  (Read 1588 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hackberry jake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3186
  • Age: 34
  • Location: St. Paul, ARKANSAS
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
band thickness
« on: April 09, 2014, 06:58:26 PM »
Its time to order bands again. Most of my bands are in the .042 range but woodmaster sent me a .055 c-sharp that really performed. I only used it til it was dull and havent sharpened it and used it again yet (saving it for troubled logs). I know they get less trips around the wheels before breaking but I am still leaning towards the .055 blades. How many of you fellars use the thicker bands?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11143
  • Age: 2015
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • Share Post
    • My homepage
Re: band thickness
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 07:08:03 PM »
I'm running 1.25"x.055". I have a 51hp diesel engine.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline ladylake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5138
  • Age: 67
  • Location: grey eagle mn
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 07:33:14 PM »

With 20 hp I'd stay with the .42 which don't take as much power.   Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline NMFP

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Muncy Valley PA
  • Gender: Male
  • 1895 01 Frick Handset(Steel) 2000 WMLT40SH
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 09:07:07 PM »
Most guys that are running any kind of production are running .055 bands as they can be run through their paces and cut straight lumber.  I only use .o55 bands because I can push almost 2x the amount of lumber through as a normal .045 band because I can horse it around and push the machine and not get wavy lumber.

With all the bands I sharpen, I don't really buy the fact that .045 bands use less hp than .055 bands.  I have numerous guys that run LT10 & LT15 mills and only run .055 bands because they can run them as fast as they can crank the head through the log.

Offline MartyParsons

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1862
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Shade Gap, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • Wood-Mizer Service and sales PA, VA, MD, WV others
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 09:24:51 PM »
Hello,
Something else to think about is blade strain related to band thickness. If you have the band blade tension set for .042 then go to a .055 thick band what may happen to blade strain?
   I run the .045 blade on most mills and feel the performance is good. The LT70 I like the .055.
I have had customers say the .045 blade uses more hp than a .042 or even a .038. I also am not sure I have been able to prove this.
Hope this helps.
Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline drobertson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8013
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Missouri
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 09:34:49 PM »
I would say run what runs best.  This requires test runs on all of the above.   And see what holds up, and how the tolerances are holding. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline dgdrls

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2918
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Central NY
  • Gender: Male
  • Learning the Art of Milling Logs
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 09:39:37 PM »
With WM, 045 bands have a wider selection of tooth angles than 042.
Not certain if this it true with other makers.

DGDrls

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6928
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 09:49:45 PM »
I've tried a variety of thicknesses in both 1 1/4" and 1 1/2", it seems to me you gain more from upping the thickness rather than going wider. I haven't done enough sawing to settle on a band yet, but I think it will be 1 1/4" wide, and either .045 or .055. I think 1 1/2" bands are a pain to install on my LT40. I'm with NWP, a lot of blades don't take advantage of the available HP before they start wandering, I want to run the blade that takes advantage of my 40 horse diesel and gives me a high feed rate.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline hackberry jake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3186
  • Age: 34
  • Location: St. Paul, ARKANSAS
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 10:46:29 PM »
I have tried just about every band out there. I have noticed you kind of get what you pay for. I liked the more expensive bands better than the cheaper ones about 90% of the time. The thicker band didn't seem to take more hp to run. My 20hp engine pulled it about the same as a .042 band. I just noticed that it didn't deflect from knots at all and I could push my mill harder without wander. The only drawback is life in my eyes. I will probably get 3 or so sharpenings out of the .055 where I would get at least twice that out of a .042 before it broke.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Online redbeard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1753
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Oak Harbor WA. Whidbey Island
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • whidbeysawmill.comwww.whidbeysawmill.com
Re: band thickness
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 12:38:47 AM »
I tried a box of 10 .055 and they cut real nice but I think I can get 30% more BF out of a box of .042-.045 blades. My 2 cents
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

Offline ladylake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5138
  • Age: 67
  • Location: grey eagle mn
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 05:26:46 AM »

 The fact is a .42 will use all of the power a 20hp motor has and cut straight unless it's dull or not set up right.   Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Chuck White

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 12273
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Russell, NY (Way Upstate)
  • Gender: Male
  • Sawing Mobile since 2005
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 07:06:52 AM »
I've been told by a couple of Wood-Mizer employees that the .055's start to shine with the higher horse power mills.

It was recommended that I don't go thicker than the .045's with my 24hp mill!

But, if the .055's work for you and you like them, go for it!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF 1989, Retired School Bus Driver 2012, now semi-retired Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline hackberry jake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3186
  • Age: 34
  • Location: St. Paul, ARKANSAS
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 09:30:06 AM »

 The fact is a .42 will use all of the power a 20hp motor has and cut straight unless it's dull or not set up right.   Steve
im not sure about this. Even with a brand new .042 band, I can increase the feedrate until i start getting wavy cuts. If I was using all of the power available it would bog the motor down before the blade started to wander. With the .055 blade it felt like I could bog the motor down if I wanted. I kaintained a higher feedrate the whole time that band was on. Even when it had gotten dull and started pulling strings.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Offline NMFP

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Muncy Valley PA
  • Gender: Male
  • 1895 01 Frick Handset(Steel) 2000 WMLT40SH
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 09:37:15 PM »
I do not buy the adage of thicker bands require more horse power.  If that's the case, why do I have a customer that cuts with an LT10 with an 8 hp engine and he can cut just as fast as another guy that cuts with an LT35 with more hp?  Both run .055 thickness bands.

The only thing a thicker band does is stiffen the band body, work harden because of the constant rotation from curve to strait during revolution and allow less flex to the band because of the thicker band body.

If it does require more hp to run a .055 thickness band than a .045".... how do we prove it?

Offline 5quarter

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1678
  • Location: Springfield NE
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Blue Harbor Refinishing
Re: band thickness
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 10:43:53 PM »
The .055" blades have a much higher beam strength than the .04x blades. you can push them much harder and still make straight lumber. but unless you increase the rpms, the gullet size/depth will ultimately limit how fast you can saw.
The .055" blades make a wider kerf, (10-12%) so you need more HP to push the thicker blade at the same rate as the thinner blade, as you're removing more wood. I don't know how much more hp, but I have .055"s that I sometimes run and cannot run them as fast with my 18hp as I can the .04x" blades. (I routinely push my feed rate right up to the point where it begins to lose rpm). Great thing about the bigger mills; you can work whatever blade to its limit without bogging anything down.  ;)
NFMP...My guess is that the guy with the lt35 is probably not pushing his mill hard enough.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Offline ladylake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5138
  • Age: 67
  • Location: grey eagle mn
  • Gender: Male
  • I need to edit my profile!
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2014, 07:15:01 AM »
 If your getting wavy cuts before using all of the power of a 20 hp mill you need to go over your alignment, do you have at least 1/4 down pressure a are the guides supporting the band good. I was making a 38hp Kohler snort with a 1 1/4  .42 band in hard maple and cutting nice and straight yesterday.  38 hp is certainly in the range where I might run .55 but the .42 do fine until dull. And yes a wider kerf is going to take more power, no way around that.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline NMFP

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Muncy Valley PA
  • Gender: Male
  • 1895 01 Frick Handset(Steel) 2000 WMLT40SH
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2014, 07:08:18 AM »
5Quarter... The guys I am talking about are both Amish and brothers.  They run everything right to the max and beyond. 

Yes, having a thicker band is a wider kerf and theoretically should take more hp and I agree that it does but no way would .01 thickness difference be drastic in operation.  You are only talking a difference between 2 thickness's of blades being 16% of a 1/16 inch. 

If you look at volumes produced from running thicker bands, straighter lumber and time....if you get 1-2 less sharpening's than you normally would, you are still further ahead by running thicker bands.  I have proved this to guys locally numerous times and they now do what I have done.

Its a preference so just try what works best for you.

Offline Brucer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4280
  • Location: Rossland, BC
  • Gender: Male
  • The Kootenay Sawyer - retired (for now)
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2014, 07:12:51 PM »
I agree with Steve. A thicker band might compensate for obscure alignment problems, but you may be causing yourself unnecessary expense and effort.

I use 1-1/2", 0.045 bands with a 28 HP mill. My friend, John, uses 1-1/2", 0.050 bands with the same motor. He went that route because he wanted to really shove the mill through the wood.  But he runs his blades a little too long between sharpenings and he hasn't learned all the fine points of adjusting his mill to perfection. (That took me a long time to learn, too).

The .050's take longer to sharpen and more effort to set. Handling is more difficult. I can easily coil a 0.045 blade, but haven't been able to coil a 0.050 blade (which only matters if you want to coil your blades).

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw with two 6' extensions.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Offline hackberry jake

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3186
  • Age: 34
  • Location: St. Paul, ARKANSAS
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: band thickness
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 08:13:01 AM »
With woods that have a high variation in density, the thicker bands really shine. Like southern yellow pine. Most of the wood cuts like butter but if you hit a grapefruit sized knot, even a brand new .042 band will want to deflect. Woods like pecan and hickory are also prone to band deflection. On the other hand, osage orange is one of the hardest woods in north america, but the density is pretty consistant throughout. I would actually rather have a .042 band for woods like this due to the smaller kerf.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Band thickness

Started by Forestry Man on Sawmills and Milling

8 Replies
1782 Views
Last post July 09, 2011, 05:11:36 AM
by Forestry Man
xx
Best band thickness for 19" wheels

Started by kelLOGg on Sawmills and Milling

6 Replies
795 Views
Last post May 03, 2014, 10:05:40 AM
by barbender
xx
Gearmatic brake band thickness??

Started by Upnorth on Forestry and Logging

0 Replies
354 Views
Last post January 02, 2014, 09:41:08 AM
by Upnorth
xx
Bought a home-made band saw- question about band guides

Started by dbpochardt on Sawmills and Milling

13 Replies
5696 Views
Last post January 30, 2013, 04:47:21 PM
by francismilker
 


Powered by EzPortal