So what's left

[ehp]

If I wanted to buy a new cable skidder  what can I buy and I would perfer small compared to big , I got a 230 A TJ with cummins in pretty good shape but once I wear it out then what do I do, I always liked the clark skidders but I believe they are gone so what next to buy a new JD 540 ?

[SliverPicker]

Check Black Hills Timber Equipment.  They have a Clark that looks good and a 380 TJ that looks exceptional.  I saw both machines in person.  Decent prices too.

[dnash]

New? Tigercat 604 maybe...

Cat doesn't make new cable machines by the looks of their website. The smallest grapple is the 525C at 39,000lbs.

For the price of a new machine, you'd probably be further ahead to completely rebuild the 230.

[BargeMonkey]

 604C is a good sized machine, work circles around a 230. Your choices are limited, maybe a 380C ?  I just recently bought a 450C, and its not as big in the woods as I thought, grapple is fast and your not fighting your butt off all the time. Michael sharp has a couple low hour 540's up there I wouldnt be scared off, 540 is just the right size.

[Brleclaire]

Apparently after 2015 you won't get a 540 either, see thread about 548's. Rebuilding your skidder is beginning to be one option to consider. With the new machines and all the electronics more people are looking at having their old stuff rebuilt. Especially with the tier 4 engines here in the US. Just seems like a lot of stuff to go wrong. Cat has a program where they take your old timbco strip it down and totally rebuild it for about half the price of new.

[thenorthman]

A little maintenance goes a long way...

motors can be rebuilt, or swapped.

Axles are rebuildable just not as common, really just new bearings, planetarys and diffs the housings should be ok.

hydraulics are cheap,

the transmissions are all repairable,

the winches for the most part can be rebuilt, some not so much those can be swapped out for a newer/easier to find parts for model

and the frame and what not is all weldable.

So if the factorys refuse to build reasonable sized machines for a resonable price, I'll just fix what I have and continue on.

The factorys reasoning behind make a motor fit a smaller machine or whatever is nonsense, they just want to sell everyone on the newest greatest gadget... (look here sir the entire machine is controlled by this little joy stick the operator wont even have to grease the grapple...).  If volkswagen can stuff 100 ponies under the hood of a golf, then Deere and Kitty Cat should have ample room in a skidder.

[HiTech]

Everything starts out in a very practical and affordable size. Then like the Fast Food places everything gets Super Sized. Look at the ATV's, they went from practical little woods machines to haul a hunter to a tree stand or haul his deer out to Big fast machines that need gravel or paved roads to go on. Like 1/2 ton pickup trucks with over 400 hp to haul groceries home. When skidders that are priced at $300 to $400 thousand , they have to be big to pull the millions of feet of wood it takes to make their payments. Like "thenorthman" says a little maintenance goes a long ways and everything can be rebuilt or swapped out. Someday the mindset of "Big" is better may come crashing down.

[shortlogger]

Does anyone have a estimate of what it might cost to totally go through a 230 TJ from top to bottom ? It would be pretty nice to have a fully restored small cable rig .

[thenorthman]

Depends on the skidder and how old it is, But I would guess from 10-30k.

Having a motor rebuilt could easily be 5k.

axels i would think can be done for around 2k apiece.

winches... 1k or more

Transmissions can get spendy especially with the automatic types (torque converts) so 4-8k

Any welding and stuff is dependant an how bad the machine was abused and whether or not you need to line bore and repin anything.

The hydraulics shouldn't be to bad unless you need a pump.  And that's the kind of thing where you just fix as you go along.

This is all largely guess work on my part though.

[ehp]

I need more smaller than larger to get threw the  timber we have here with out marking any of it up, my 230 is pretty wide at 109 inches or so . I had a 450 tj short frame with a 453 in it and that skidder worked very good and I think would not be much wider than my 230 . My 230 is pretty low hours and am thinking I will just keep fixing anything it needs , In about a year or so I'm going to need tires and most likely will drop in a new 4BT before this winter , it had a brandnew tranny just put in when I bought it . I need a cable as lots of places they donot want grapple . I think the 604 tigercat is way to large for around here and they are not very fast on the road , I do alot of 20 to 50 acre cuts and just drive the skidder to the next cut if its like 5 miles away or less , I got a couple big cuts for the summer if it drys up enough with the largest at 155 acres of red oak

[Ed_K]

 My taylor is at a little over 12k right now.The whole drivetrain is done, winch is done,centers and steering done, all it needs is another paint job and tires.Also need to rebuild the blade arm conections and cyc bushings. So 15k is close.

[Reddog]

Looking to what the Scandinavians and Europeans have done for sub 100hp skidding.
A skid winch on a armored up 4x4 farm tractor seems to be about the only option left for the smaller foot print.

Still isn't cheap by any means if purchasing all new equipment.

[redprospector]

Depends on the skidder and how old it is, But I would guess from 10-30k.

Having a motor rebuilt could easily be 5k.

axels i would think can be done for around 2k apiece.

winches... 1k or more

Transmissions can get spendy especially with the automatic types (torque converts) so 4-8k

Any welding and stuff is dependant an how bad the machine was abused and whether or not you need to line bore and repin anything.

The hydraulics shouldn't be to bad unless you need a pump.  And that's the kind of thing where you just fix as you go along.

This is all largely guess work on my part though.

Your guess on the axles is about the same as mine was....until lately.
The town I live in (700 people) shelled the planetarys out of their JD 410E backhoe. I know it's not a skidder, but it's an axle.
John Deere wanted well over $9000 to rebuild it, and the parts to do it weren't very affordable either. We found a place that would sell a rebuilt rear end for about $7000 exchange. Best deal that we could find. I was totally amazed.

[thenorthman]

Holy hanna...

its just a couple of bearings and a couple of gears, hardest part is fitting the clearance... these dealers must be on drugs...

I looked at the parts just for the wheel bearings on mine a few weeks ago and it was like 150 per wheel, a guy would thing the rest wouldn't be so bad

[BargeMonkey]

 Axle and ZF trans come down together in those. Someone got bent over on that one. We limped by with our 850B for years with leaky drive motors. Deere doesnt even wanna try to rebuild them anymore. Machine shop in Schenectady NY wanted 10k a side to partially go thru them. We resealed them, couple shims and wished them luck.

[treeslayer2003]

engine rebuild is way cheaper than even going thrugh one side of a planetary axle.....gears n bearings is gold plated ya know.

[ehp]

So how much in the States does it cost to rebuild a Cummins 4BT motor ?  Rearends I would think would be close to $5,000 a piece if you can use some of the old parts

[BargeMonkey]

So how much in the States does it cost to rebuild a Cummins 4BT motor ?  Rearends I would think would be close to $5,000 a piece if you can use some of the old parts

If you look around ive seen new 4bt's for close to 5. I can buy a clean low hour take out for 2500. Just a complete engine kit is 12-1800, but a B series cummins was parent bore so depends how wiped the cylinders are.

[treeslayer2003]

i did the 4 cyl. in my 540 for 1500 using deere kit. head and pump was fine and i did the work.

[ehp]

I would just sooner drop in a new motor and new clutch and go , If I can buy one for any where close to $5,000 I would do that in a heart beat

[shortlogger]

Looking to what the Scandinavians and Europeans have done for sub 100hp skidding.
A skid winch on a armored up 4x4 farm tractor seems to be about the only option left for the smaller foot print.

Still isn't cheap by any means if purchasing all new equipment.

That's been where I'm at , trying to decide if I would rather get a 75 hp or so 4x4 tractor and add skid plates and guards and a skidding winch or buy an older TJ and go through it . I only log part time and I have a farm that I could use the tractor on when I'm not logging so I'm not sure what would be better in the long run .

[xalexjx]

if it were me id run what ya have. change/ check the fluids and a grease gun and itll last a long time, if you get a small leak either keep it filled or fix it, dont let all the stuff snowball up or youll have a rag and have to put 10k into it at once. thats my 2c

[chester_tree _farmah]

That's been where I'm at , trying to decide if I would rather get a 75 hp or so 4x4 tractor and add skid plates and guards and a skidding winch or buy an older TJ and go through it . I only log part time and I have a farm that I could use the tractor on when I'm not logging so I'm not sure what would be better in the long run .

What type of terrain do you cut? I ask because up here in Maine the ground is just too uneven and rough to run a farm tractor for commercial logging. You will just beat that tractor up trying to produce. Now if you cut your farm land yourself or the land u cut is old farmland and  pretty smooth the tractor is a viable option.  IMO.

Or get a 40 hp tractor and a solid old TF or TJ etc. :-)

[shortlogger]

What type of terrain do you cut? I ask because up here in Maine the ground is just too uneven and rough to run a farm tractor for commercial logging. You will just beat that tractor up trying to produce. Now if you cut your farm land yourself or the land u cut is old farmland and  pretty smooth the tractor is a viable option.  IMO.

Or get a 40 hp tractor and a solid old TF or TJ etc. :-)
[/quote]

Most if what I work is pretty good ground farm edges and small tracts if it's too steep I just stay away from it . I already have two 45 hp tractors I use some but they are too weak on pulling big logs to suit me so that's why I'm thinking skidder or big 4x4 tractor

[Reddog]

One thing nice with the skid winch in steep ground is the amount of cable they will carry.
Easily two or three times the reach of a skidder winch.
So you can work with out the need to drive the steepest sections in rolling ground a lot of times.

[thenorthman]

Skidders are made to pull wood on uneven ground, tractors are made to pull plows on flat ground.  Granted a tractor can be adapted but you will be better off and safer with a small old skidder then a new tractor.  Right tool for the job and all that.

[BargeMonkey]

 The occasional load of logs, firewood and cleaning the hedge row can be done with a tractor, but they just arent built for it. A good stick or rock, odd limb, lots of things to damage a tractor in a hurry.  We have about 3% flat land here, and I get good money to go roll over other guys equipment for them. You can buy a decent older jack for 10-25k, and its so much faster and safer than a farm tractor. I know of 4 killed skidding with a tractor around here.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Agree with all above and since you have two tractors already the skidder is the way to go. I started cutting with a tractor and the skidder is so much better and as said above safer. Not downing tractors but skidders are built for this. Nothing hanging out underneath like hoses or linkage to get snagged. You don't need to clear trails as u should for a tractor. etc etc.

As an added bonus u get another toy. Just tell the wife it's a safety issue.  :-)

[Reddog]

 :

[ehp]

I honestly in the beginning didnot like or want anything to do with the 230 TJ but at the time it was by far the best skidder I could find up here for the right price , I could not find a skidder that was not totally worn out and the 230 found me , its owner needed to sell it and I paid what he wanted as I felt the price was a good deal , Now I donot mind the 230 , it starts everyday no matter how cold it gets outside , breaks very little and if it does break the parts are pretty cheap compared to the other brands , I only have broken a couple U- joints at $30 a piece and a back rearend yoke , I replaced a couple hoses and I did the brakes in the transfer case as they were no good to start with but thats it , not bad considering I'm coming up on having the machine 2 years now

[redprospector]

I honestly in the beginning didnot like or want anything to do with the 230 TJ but at the time it was by far the best skidder I could find up here for the right price , I could not find a skidder that was not totally worn out and the 230 found me , its owner needed to sell it and I paid what he wanted as I felt the price was a good deal , Now I donot mind the 230 , it starts everyday no matter how cold it gets outside , breaks very little and if it does break the parts are pretty cheap compared to the other brands , I only have broken a couple U- joints at $30 a piece and a back rearend yoke , I replaced a couple hoses and I did the brakes in the transfer case as they were no good to start with but thats it , not bad considering I'm coming up on having the machine 2 years now

Ed,
It sounds like a pretty good skidder. Honestly, I'd just keep it. I'm kind of looking for a 230 with a grapple myself. I like my JD 440b, but a grapple and winch would be nice and JD parts are way high. I replaced a front U-joint in the 440 and it cost over $300.

[Bobus2003]

Check Black Hills Timber Equipment.  They have a Clark that looks good and a 380 TJ that looks exceptional.  I saw both machines in person.  Decent prices too.

SliverPicker, You from around the Hills?

[ehp]

Andy in my mind the 230 would be a step up from the 440B , the 230 will pull more trees that is forsure now I never drove a 230 with the 353 in it much but drove the 440B lots , At one time the old man had 7 - 440B skidders , I think my 230 pulls better than the 230 with 353 in it

[redprospector]

Yep, the 230 is a lot more skidder than the 440 for sure.
What I do like about the 440 is that it is the perfect size for the thinning that I do. I don't think the 230 would be enough bigger to effect me much as far a getting around. I do think that since I have the Hydro Ax that a grapple would be real nice, and I've only seen 1 440 with a grapple, and more power is never a bad thing.

[ehp]

my 230 is pretty wide with the 23.1 tires on it and its to have the heavier rearends in it but that could be BS as I donot know but that is what I was told , I never drove a 665 clark but to me that would be about the proper size for here as its real important to not touch any other the standing trees so width you have to watch .

[ehp]

So now we know that there is not going to be to many small skidders left or around to buy so does this mean the price of those small skidders is going to go up , I see a guy that has a 240 A for sale and it looks pretty good but not brandnew but he wants $45,000 for it , JD 440's around here are being big money to , alot more than what I would pay for one . I'm to the point of thinking that if a good used skidder came up for sale I would buy it and just sit it off to the side and use it when ever I had to