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Author Topic: true quartersawn yield  (Read 6904 times)

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Offline Bro. Noble

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2004, 07:48:04 PM »
The Arkansawyer was showing me how to predict the quality of the 'flame' in white logs so you would know if they were worth the extra effort to Q-saw.  I believe he learned how from Electric Al.  This would be a good time for one of them (or someone else in the know) to share their knowledge. :)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Offline TomFromStLouis

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2004, 08:49:41 PM »
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Tom ---

I believe that starting with a round log that is quartered, as you flip the log from face to face the first board grain is 90 degrees (quarter sawn) and the last is 45 degrees (rift sawn).

Some people consider 90 degrees to 45 degrees to be quarter sawn. The remained is considered flat sawn.

Other people consider 90 degrees to 60 degrees to be quarter sawn and 60 degrees to 45 degrees to be rift sawn.




This is curious geometry. You would think that if 15 degrees one way of 45 degrees is okay for rift (i.e. 60 degrees), then 15 degrees the other side would work too (why not 30 degrees?) So much for technical definitions. If the buyer needs to see fleck to pay more, that's my definition too.

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2004, 09:27:03 PM »





ANY QUESTIONS?
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Offline Steve

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2004, 10:37:41 PM »
I got to this late as I was working away and haven't been near the computer.
I have a MD and quartersaw, the way Tom does, all the logs I saw.
It isn't perfect but does an acceptable job. Most grading rules allow up to 45 from perfect quartersawn although my luthier customers are more comfortable with less.
The curl or figure in Koa shows up much more when quartersawn and since it sells for twice the price it its well worth the effort..
Steve
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www.curlykoa.com

Offline GHRoberts

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2004, 08:24:07 AM »
Tom ---

You are correct.

90-60 degrees is quarter sawn.
60-30 is rift sawn
30-0  is flat sawn

(I was looking at the quarter sawn picture where all the lumber is 90-45.)

Offline TomFromStLouis

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2004, 06:42:57 PM »
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ANY QUESTIONS?ARKANSAWYER


Yeah Arky, I got one. What percentage of your boards come off looking that good sawing through and through like that? They sure are purdy.

Or, more scientifically, what percentage of your board footage comes out with that kind of fleck?

Offline TomFromStLouis

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2004, 06:49:21 PM »
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The Arkansawyer was showing me how to predict the quality of the 'flame' in white logs so you would know if they were worth the extra effort to Q-saw.


If I can sell QSWO at $3 or $3.50 and plain sawn goes for $1.50, why would I ever plain saw? Surely my yield would be greater than 50%. And note I said IF I could sell... - but that is the pricing around here....

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2004, 09:01:31 PM »

 If you go back and look at Larry's photo of the rings in that slice of tree you can see lines that run across the rings.  In most cases you will have these lines cross the rings at 90 degrees but not in Larry's tree this time.  If you will saw so that your blade cuts these lines you will get the best rays in the wood.  Not all trees are good for qsawing.  The pith should be centered on both ends (or pretty close) and these line should be thick, wide, and rund straight from the pith to the bark.
 I saw with the pith as close to centerd on both ends when I take off the first slab.  This is just so I can clamp the log low so I can saw all the way through.  I often just get 3 or 4 cuts from the center.  I roll the whole log 90 degrees and remove the center boards and clamp the 2 halves back and saw 3 or 4 more times.  When done I have some boards and 4 pies.  I clip off the tip and back of the pie and saw it to the deck like in the photos above.  If the qsawn boards are going to be less then 6 inches wide I often just clamp the pie down and flat saw it.  No waste that way and I have gotten all the good qsawn lumber and saved the flat sawn.
 The big log in the photo had 200 bdft by the Doyle scale.  I qsawed the whole log and got 196 bdft of qsawn lumber like in the bottom photo.  This was a good log and had good rays and piths were only 1/4 inch off center.
 You have to learn to pick the logs with good "flame" and saw by the rays and forget the rings.
ARKANSAWYER
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Offline Larry

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2004, 11:58:33 AM »
I agree with Arky 100 percent.  The rays are the secret to the whole idea of getting good fleck.  Took me a couple of years to really get a good handle on it.  I found a couple of scraps of wood for a photo session this morning.




In this piece the rays are nice and thick.  They intersect the cut surface at an angle and create strong figure.  I call it bubble figure for lack of a better description.  The pattern commonly runs length wise with the grain.  As the angle of the ray to the surface increases the bubbles get smaller and eventually disappear.




In this piece the rays are parallel with the surface.  The fleck makes a pattern across the grain know as tiger stripe.  Most of the time I get the tiger stripe on the part of the board closet to the bark but it changes to the bubble figure when it gets close to the pith.  Arkys board picture right above Wanda shows this perfect.  Notice the rays in this piece are much thinner than the rays in the first picture.  Same wood bur oak -- but different trees.  

This isnt much help for sycamore as the rays on that tree are so small they cant be seen most of the time.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline music_boy

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2004, 04:14:48 PM »
Hey,
    I just wanted to say this has been one of the most interesting, educational, and informative threads. ;D (for me anyway) As a rookie\newbie to the art of sawing, this type of sharing of informaion is   incredable. I've started a binder to put this kind of info in for future reference. Not too many places anymore where people in business share information they've learned through the school of hard knocks, their grandfathers, and close friends, to folks that they've only known by way of telephone lines hooked up to a computer screen.( not even that in most cases)
As always
Thanks alot
Rick
It's not how much YOU love, it is how much you ARE loved that matters. (Wizard of OZ)

Offline sandmar

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2004, 07:08:02 PM »
I agree music_boy.
I know I lurk WAAAAAAY too much...but learn something new most everyday. Thanks to all you guys and girls for sharing your knowledge with the ones of us that are trying to get started. You will never know how much trial and error you save for us newbies.
Not to mention the good wood that would be ruined for lack of experience. You guys eat some piggy at Jeff's for us lurkers on the list! ;D
Sandmar....who has learned that you must get something about eating in every post possible ::)

Offline chet

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Re: true quartersawn yield
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2004, 09:35:36 PM »
Sandmar yur right on target. Everything eventually leads to food.  ;D   :D    :D
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist


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