Useful sawmill mods

Bibbyman · April 17, 2006, 10:08:27 PM

Quote from: VA-Sawyer on April 17, 2006, 09:49:26 PM
Great explaination there, Al. Couldn't have said it any better myself. Bibby, you need to get some form of unloader because the WM valves are not open-center type as far as I know.
VA-Sawyer

I was told it was. I'll check it out again.

There is no pressure on the line when no valves are being pressed.

BBTom · April 17, 2006, 11:21:15 PM

Bibby is right about the open center valves ( on my 2001 LT40HDD42RA), but the friction caused by running the oil to the valves and back to the tank probably causes the oil to heat up.

Bibby, did you not just recently do a mod involving welding cable to the battery for the 12V hydraulic motors? What happened to that mod? I was thinking of doing the same thing, but if there is a problem with it, I would like to know ahead of time. I am mobile a fair amount of the time so a stationary pack would not be a good solution for me.

Bibbyman · April 18, 2006, 04:31:36 AM

Quote from: BBTom on April 17, 2006, 11:21:15 PM
Bibby, did you not just recently do a mod involving welding cable to the battery for the 12V hydraulic motors? What happened to that mod? I was thinking of doing the same thing, but if there is a problem with it, I would like to know ahead of time. I am mobile a fair amount of the time so a stationary pack would not be a good solution for me.

I was very pleased with that mod. If you go back a couple of pages you'll find a post where I came back and added a ground cable to the system also.

I found that working the hydraulics 'on the fly' was not good as the ground button setup was not grounding very well when on the move. I'd see a flash coming from under the mill.

Good buddy Sparks advised me that when there was not a good ground at the button, it'd find another way to ground - though the head cam rollers or chain drive. And that tended to weld up bearings, etc.

So, if I were to do it all over again, I'd figure from the start to cable the positive and the ground side. And if I were going mobile, I'd figure on running the cables inside a light steel tube along side the cable track return.

The major reason for the new remote pump was for reliability. We had the first set of brushes burn out of one motor at about 1800 hours. The second went at about 2000. I hear that's real early. Others have told me they've got much more life out of the brushes on their pump motors. The second sets didn't last 500 hours. At about 2600 hours we're on our third set and one motor was down and out again. Now we're looking at replacing the motors as the commutator are worn pretty bad.

At this point I need to add that I'd been saving money by having a local motor repair shop replace the brushes. They only charge about $15 and the motor comes back clean as new. But I'm beginning to think their brushes are not very good. When I opened the motor up after they failed, what was left of the brushes appeared to be very soft. When the last pair failed, I had one set of replacement brushes from Wood-Mizer that I put in myself (with Mary's help - looked like two monkeys fighting over the same banana). At the time of the pump conversion, the one I repaired using brushes from Wood-Mizer was still going but the one repaired by the local guy was out again. So.... That leads me to think the WM brushes good, local guy's bad...

I'd also like to thank Sparks and Burl at Wood-Mizer for answering technical questions on this project. For sure they didn't tell me to go out and do this. I'm sure their advice would have been to leave it alone. But they were very helpful when it came to answering the questions the pump builder had so we could spec this system. This project sure gives me new respect for how much effort it takes to design and prove out a system like this so it works and works well.

I also had help from an electrical engineer where at my former office job. He reviewed my homework on the electrical spec side and 'splained things to me about fusing and motor starting, etc. Now I know why I move slabs and fix things - I didn't understand what he was telling me. :D

I'm going to try to get back with the pump builder today and review the project. I'll ask him about the heat rise and the unloader valve.

BBTom · April 18, 2006, 07:22:39 AM

Thanks for the information, Bibby. I will be doing that mod soon. Dragging the mill through all the salt and slush up here in the rust belt makes for contacts that don't contact.

Thanks for reminding me to order brushes for everything on my mill. I have 2550 hours and as of today every brush on the machine is original. I have heard the up/down motor "chattering" lately, I better call them today!!

Bibbyman · April 18, 2006, 07:52:49 AM

Quote from: BBTom on April 18, 2006, 07:22:39 AM
Thanks for the information, Bibby. I will be doing that mod soon. Dragging the mill through all the salt and slush up here in the rust belt makes for contacts that don't contact.

Thanks for reminding me to order brushes for everything on my mill. I have 2550 hours and as of today every brush on the machine is original. I have heard the up/down motor "chattering" lately, I better call them today!!

The bruses on the up/down motor are real easy to get to to check and replace. I checked our a few hundred hours back and they were only worn about 1/4. Lots of life left in them.

We bought a set of brushes for everything maybe a couple of years ago. Only used the one set on the HD motor just about two months ago as we had both pumps out! The local guy takes a week to get new brushes put in.

VA-Sawyer · April 18, 2006, 08:36:16 AM

Bibby,
Maybe WM went to open-center valves on the newer mills. I must confess, I haven't had any real experience with the 6 lever valve bodies they are using now. If the pump isn't 'working' to produce pressure except when you have a lever moved, then it should be fine.
Just keep an eye on the oil temps for a while. Working it hard on a hot day will be worst case conditions. As long as you can hold your hand comfortably against the lower part of the tank, I wouldn't worry about having an unloader valve. Congrats on the upgrade!

I agree about the WM brushes being better quality. Not sure why it looked like "2 monkeys fighting over a banana" when changing pump brushes. Didn't they include the cardboard ring in your brush kit? I find it makes the job pretty easy myself. The motor that I have the most trouble putting back together is the 'feed' motor on the sharpener.
VA-Sawyer

woodbowl · April 18, 2006, 09:02:14 AM

Quote from: Bibbyman on April 16, 2006, 01:31:30 PM

The hydraulics are plenty fast - maybe a little too fast on some operations like the log turner. You have to 'feather' the valves to ease things along so it'll take a little getting use to. We could put a flow reducer in the line I guess.

Bibby, are you getting the hang of the faster GPM yet? I'm thinking that it would be simular to a sensitive sports car in the hands of an unfamilar driver VS a familar driver untill the feel is found and then it can out perform all the rest. I would like to see you be able to effortlessly controll as many functions as possible. ............ A portable Woodmizer with an industrial booth with joystick controls. :

:

slowzuki · April 18, 2006, 11:21:43 AM

Just something I noticed, if you haven't already buy a 0.25$ pipe plug to thread into the drain valve port. It does a couple of things, keeps it clean and keeps it from leaking or accidently being opened. Standard in industry.
Ken

Quote from: Bibbyman on April 15, 2006, 09:13:30 PM

If you notice on the left end just behind the drain valve handle, I had the builder to add an extra bung plug. It's for a heater element. We didn't have the heater put as it would have taken couple of weeks to get it. We won't need it until winter for sure and maybe not then. But we got the hole incase. I added a gate valve in the drain plug hole so I could attach a hose and open the valve to drain it.

Bibbyman · April 18, 2006, 12:12:21 PM

Quote from: slowzuki on April 18, 2006, 11:21:43 AM
Just something I noticed, if you haven't already buy a 0.25$ pipe plug to thread into the drain valve port. It does a couple of things, keeps it clean and keeps it from leaking or accidently being opened. Standard in industry.
Ken

Yep, managed to think of that! I used the bung plug the builder put in. I even got a section of hose on a reducer ready to screw in when I'm ready to drain it.

GF · April 18, 2006, 04:37:32 PM

Bibbyman, is the man with a plan.

Bibbyman · April 18, 2006, 06:29:01 PM

I had a follow up meeting today with the hydraulic guy that built this unit.

As the mill has an open valve system, no unloader is required. The heat build up to 120f I've seen so far is no problem and he said he'd expect it to get to 150 on warmer days and to not to start to worry until it reached 180f.

We talked a little more about some fine tuning - maybe dropping the pressure a bit. It's hitting the max flow setting on the valve body of 2200 psi. It's plenty strong. If I could back that off, it'd be easier on the mill and easier on the pump. I could keep the 6gpm and be just as fast. I could do this at the valve body (assuming it's adjustable) or add a flow control valve. That may just be the best way. Never know when some day you got a real biggie to handle.

Right now I've got the hose on the new system connected in the HD box on the WM to the hose on the WM. The WM hoses are smaller than what I've used to connect to the pump. They are 3/8" on the WM. But they 'neck down' to 1/4" at the guage. It may lower the heat a little if I change out those sections of hoses. Changing out hoses on the rest of the system would not be of any benefit - heat wise or speed/power wise as the cylenders use very little oil.

D._Frederick · April 18, 2006, 07:39:11 PM

Bibby,

If you have a open system, only one control at a time will work. With a closed system that is pressured all the time, all controls will operated at the same time. To operate a closed system, you need to have a variable displacement pump. Just some info.

Bibbyman · April 18, 2006, 09:17:35 PM

Quote from: D._Frederick on April 18, 2006, 07:39:11 PM
Bibby,

If you have a open system, only one control at a time will work. With a closed system that is pressured all the time, all controls will operated at the same time. To operate a closed system, you need to have a variable displacement pump. Just some info.

Well, now I am confused. I know more than one valve will work at one time yet when none are working, there is no pressure on the line. I suspect it has to do with all the valves are on one bank. The builder said I couldn't have more than one valve bank unless they were setup with 'work beyond'. Whatever that is...

The more I know.... the more I find out I don't know.

wiam · April 18, 2006, 09:53:24 PM

I run a gaurdrail post driver. It has about 8 valves on one bank that is open center. I can run several functions at once.

Will

D._Frederick · April 18, 2006, 10:57:42 PM

If it is a "true open system", no control will work down stream from the section that is being used.

The work beyond means that the output of one section of controls can be connected to the input of another section.
On an open system, all control sections must be connected in series. On a closed system the control section can be connected in parallel. They all see the same pressure.

Bibbyman · April 29, 2006, 10:31:28 PM

Well, my last mod is working so well, I decided it was time for another. ;D

pigman · April 29, 2006, 10:39:22 PM

You took the hyd pumps out of the box and and you are putting in a cooler to keep the drinks cold.

amberwood · April 30, 2006, 06:29:58 AM

For those without a tacho on their mill I have just fitted a bike computer -AUD$30, and it works a treat. It reads out in km/hr, but really just serves as a reference for bandspeed overall. It is easily programmed to suit the diameter of the bandwheels and in my case the sensor is fitted on the undriven wheel with the readout next to the throttle.

DTR

Bibbyman · April 30, 2006, 06:56:17 AM

Quote from: amberwood on April 30, 2006, 06:31:14 AM
For those without a tacho on their mill I have just fitted a bike computer -AUD$30, and it works a treat. It reads out in km/hr, but really just serves as a reference for bandspeed overall. It is easily programmed to suit the diameter of the bandwheels and in my case the sensor is fitted on the undriven wheel with the readout next to the throttle.

DTR

Did you do it like logwalker did his..?

Bicycle computer on bandmill.

Qweaver · April 30, 2006, 10:08:24 AM

Here are two items that I've built to make sawing and handling logs easier.

I was fed up with slipping and difficult to tighten log dogs so I built this one using a s/s bolt and nut. It works great and never slips.

I looked at several forks for the loader on my tractor. They were expensive and I really didn't like the design, so I designed and built these. They go on quick and stay tight. They are made from 4" channel and they will bend under too much load. I'm going to weld in a spring leaf to the under side to stiffen them up but they work fine as they are, as long as a little care is used. i.e., don't try to lift a 3000 lb log with the forks, 1. the tractor can't do it and 2. the forks will bend.

amberwood · April 30, 2006, 07:12:25 PM

Exactly the same installation...and now I know that I stuffed up the belt calcs somewhere..only running a bandspeed of 70kph..should be about 100kph. Will need a bigger drive pulley before the next job.

DTR

Larry · April 30, 2006, 07:30:20 PM

Quote from: Bibbyman on April 29, 2006, 10:31:28 PM
Well, my last mod is working so well, I decided it was time for another. ;D

Ok...I'll bite. Ya got rid of the electric over hydraulic?

BTW send me all the parts ya don't use no more. I'll put em on my mill, buy a can of orange, and call it an LT38.