Whatcha Sawin' ???

[YellowHammer]

I use 16", it works well.

16" runners also have other advantageous, it allows non symmetric sticker spacing.  

Some wood will create "stack bow" on 16" and 24" spacing, so stacking both runners on each end, and one in the middle for 5 stickers with 32" from center will prevent that.  It's very common to get stack bow on some active species, and I see it at about every mill I visit.  This open spacing in the center of the pack will allow the center of the pack to settle better by removing some of the support and allow more downward deflection to level.  

[Southside]

Err.. Would you please translate that YH? Perhaps a picture of what you are saying? Thanks.

[SawyerTed]

 

 Going to be sawing pine.  Hauled 15 tons today.  Two loads on the trailer and one load on a heavy duty 2 ton truck with 12 ton trailer.  

All FREE!


 
 

 

[Magicman]

Yes you are.  Looks like some nice stems.  ;D

[Ljohnsaw]

NICE! When you have them all cut up into full 2x10's (I need about 2,000 bd-ft), let me know and I'll come pick them up. ;)

[Busysawyer]

Sawyerted,  nice free logs. You are a lot smarter than I am . I'd a loaded that trailer 8ft high and tried to get all in one load. I grabbed this small load for free a couple days ago. A couple decent cherry and maple logs. I'm an idiot and I would have loaded twice as much if they had them.  Blew out a tire a 1/4 mile from the mill with this "little load" . I really need to get something proper to haul logs.

 

 

 

 

[SawyerTed]

Busysawyer - Wow that's a load of logs on that trailer.  You must have a beast of a truck!

The fellow who was driving the 2 ton truck with the 12 ton trailer has other commercial trucking interests.  He advised we haul on the conservative side since we would be on interstate part of the time.  We didn't want to attract attention from the Division of Motor Vehicles officers.

[Busysawyer]

Ted , I'm just driving an old 03 GMC 3/4 ton gasser.  I'd never consider getting on an interstate or main road hauling a load like that. I just putt along at 40 mph on back roads. If I see any law enforcement its backwoods country cops and I think they are used to seeing idiots like me driving rusted out farm trucks hauling way too much weight. I need to stop doing it though. I'm trashing my trailer, if you look close in the blown tire pics you can see a broken shackle. Also my trailer frame is bent behind the axles from driving the skidsteer up on it.  I bent the tube on the back of the truck where the receiver is mounted as well so now my hitch is pointed at a downward angle.

[Busysawyer]

So I tried sawing this today.

 

 

 
But this log has a mind of it's own and instead of ending up on the mill. 













It decided to go here.



 
It's still sitting there. I need to wrap a chain around it and fish it up and out of there with the skidsteer. I was by myself and thought it would be smarter and safer to wait for the old man to come over tommorow and supervise my fishing attempts.

[Magicman]

That/those "heavier on one end" logs will also eat your lunch on the sawmill when you turn then.  You said it right when you said "mind of it's own".  Gerrr    :-\

[Busysawyer]

Funny part is I actually had it on the mill. I got it on the mill couldn't roll it to the side I wanted up. I thought it'd be a good idea to push it back on the deck and use the deck to spin then drop it back on the mill. Well it spun alright, it spun and corkscrewed itself into it's current position. Wedged in between the rails of the deck. Oh yeah and there was a point where I was trying to use the trusty log rite yo spin it on the mill. I'm sure if someone was watching this whole fiasco they would have had a good laugh, I know I did. Momentarily frustrated but couldn't do much by laugh it off and find other work that had to get done.

[Southside]

BS to each his own, but hauling loads like that with a truck, trailer, and hitch in that condition it's not just your life that you are putting at risk should something happen. 

[Busysawyer]

Pretty good chances I might take out a cow or possibly a deer. Not to worried about it topping out at 40 mph on the long straight stretches. If I'm going over a blind hill I'm cresting that sucker at about 12 mph. I've been watching farmers around here do much, much worse for about 40 years and I have yet to hear about one taking out a person. There was a lady that was killed by rear ending a combine though. 

[Southside]

How is she going from 40 to zero?  That's the critical question.  

[Busysawyer]

South side , a lot better than a semi loaded with hay or grain but not great. When you can see a mile down the road and there's 2 houses in that stretch I dont worry to much about stopping distance. When pulling any load I drive at a speed to where I can stop in plenty of time whether its 5000 pounds or 15000 pounds. Hills, corners, intersections is where I slow way down. Pulling anything you really need to anticipate what's up ahead. Pulling a load like that I bet my average speed is about 25 mph and I drive with the 4 ways on and my dad in his car behind me with his 4 ways on. I'm not out hotrodding down the highway or through town. I actually worry more about my chase car getting rear ended than anything.

[YellowHammer]

Err.. Would you please translate that YH? Perhaps a picture of what you are saying? Thanks.

Stack bow, where if you sight down the top of a stack of stickered wood, you will generally see a slight upward curve in the middle of the stack in the upper layers.  The ends are low, the middle is slightly higher, the other end is low.  It's a very smooth, gentle upward and downward curve on air drying stacks of lumber.  It is something I see all the time if I look in other people's stacks of stickers wood, and if not corrected will cause an aggravating bow in dried wood in the upper layers.  When stickered properly, the weight of the wood on upper layers provide a downward force to the layers beneath to press the lower stacks flatter.  The point loads of the stickers provide downward or "flattening" force, and are are divided by the number of stickers.  Since the weight of the boards is constant, the more stickers you have, the less weight is applied at each point load or sticker.  Once the individual sticker loads are decreased to a certain level, at some point, in some woods, it does not actually provide enough force to keep the boards flat.  This is similar to the old carnival bed of nails trick, where if enough nails are,used, the point loads at each nail are not enough to pierce the skin so a guy can lay on the bed of nails without bleeding.  
 
So tight sticker spacing can provide very localized flat boards, but can result in a gentle, slight overall board bow, maybe sometimes up to 1/4 inch per board, but usually less, as the warps, twists, and other irregularities of the lower boards cause distortion in the upper boards as the defects acculumulate and add up.

Two ways to get around this is to add a additonal weight to the top of the stacks, and I use 3,000 pounds of slab granite on pallets, or decrease the sticker spacing in the areas of bow, to increase the point loads of those particular columns of stickers or both. 

On the reverse, if the sticker spacing is too wide with too much weight, so much force is applied through the stickers that the fibers of some softer wood is crushed and can be seen when the wood is finished, so additional sticker columns can be added or weight removed.  So there is a balancing act to get it just right, and paying attention to this has really helped me reduce the amount of bowed boards I have to fix after drying.

16 inch spacing with weight on top seems to work best for me, in most cases.  

I don't have any pictures of stack bow, but I'll try to take some.  It won't be long before I see some, next time I go to somebody's lumberyard.    

[Southside]

Ok. I know exactly what you mean. I typically keep my stickers at 18", I guess just because, but I know on one occasion I did have some fiber crush, I don't remember what I had done on that load but I got lucky in that it came out during moulding.

Thanks

[Downstream]

 

 

I'm hoping that these hard maple logs I got from the a neighbor are spalted.  The look like they have some discoloration going on.  I picked up 4 of them.  Not monsters but will make a few nice slabs.

[SawyerTed]

Log lifter?

 

[Southside]

Cutting small stuff again Ted?  :D

[WDH]

Downstream,

They are gray stained on the outside rim of the log, but they do not look spalted. 

[Busysawyer]

Cut a couple nice walnuts to bring home to the mill today. Probably sell the two butt logs for veneer.  I really don't like veneer simply due to the fact they buy all my nice logs and leave me with the scraps. Hardly ever get to mill a nice butt log. I want to keep and saw my pretty logs but the price for veneer just doesn't make it economically feasible. 

 

 

 

 

[Larry]

I see a lot of maple that color cause folks leave it laying too long in the heat.  Leave it till next summer and you might see spalt.

We call it paint grade.  KD FAS1F is lucky to bring $1.50.

[Larry]

When I was sawing a lot of walnut I could saw a small veneer log and make money.

Thank you very much Doyle scale.  I don't think it would work on the other scales.

[Busysawyer]

Larry, I keep the small ones for myself but I dont really buy small trees. I just passed on a job that had 31 nice veneer walnuts 18-20". Told the land owner he'd get a lot more for them in 4 or 5 years. I bought some of his ash, cherry, sycamore and white oak. I try not to buy anything under 21". If he needed the cash or wanted them gone I would have taken them all and made a good profit. Most of the veneer logs I sell I get 6 to 8 dollars a bf. so I'd have to be able to get real good money to be able to saw them instead.