You want me to put my mill where??

[Brucer]

My approach to jobs like this is to say, "Yes I can, and this is how much it will cost."

Before you can figure a price, you need to think of everything that could happen. Visualize your normal operation in great detail, and then think about all that stuff going on on top of an 8 story roof. What is going to happen differently?

Make a comprehensive list, price out everything, and then discuss it with the customer. Sometimes the customer can do something cheaper than you can.

Don't compete with your customer. In other words, don't be trying to make as much money as you can without losing the job, while at the same time he is trying to spend as little as he can. Make a collaborative project.

A few thoughts:

• Be sure to strap the head down tight to the bed of the mill. Don't rely on the weight of the head or the safety chain alone to hold it securely. If it shifts even a little while it is in the air, it could start swinging like a pendulum.
• Make sure the contract relieves you of any responsibility for damage to the structure caused by the mill.
• Will the vibration from the sawing and the engine be magnified inside the building? Will it matter?
• If your mill is insured, make sure it will be covered in this situation. If it isn't, make sure the customer insures it.
• Think of all the things that could leave you liable for damages to the public (or other businesses). For example, sawdust blowing off the roof, the wind catching a board just as you finish a cut and sending it over the side (of the building).
• How will you get fuel to the mill. Are there restrictions or bylaws about the amount of liquid fuel you move about in the building?
• Is the roof material flammable? Fire protection required for sure.

The biggest problem with jobs like this is that you know all about how your mill works, but your customer doesn't. Your customer has a set of expectations about how the job will proceed, but you don't know what they are. Both of you will be inclined to make incorrect assumptions about how much the other person knows about your specialty.

[Darrel]

Some folk have more money than brains. Don't worry about why they didn't do the work before they went to all the trouble to get the beams on the roof. Make sure all damages are covered in the contract and enjoy the view.

[LaneC]

Back the mill into a connex box (the double door boxes that they transport on ships and 18 wheelers), secure it inside, lift it and put it up top. You could use the box to store enough lumber in it for a good load, then let it down. They could unload it and send it back up. If not used for storing the lumber, the mill could be stored in the box when not in use. Just an idea. I do not know how difficult it is to move your mill by hand. It may not be a good idea, but just a thought.

[LaneC]

I guess I should have stated that the connex boxes have attachment points at all corners of the box (pad eyes) for lifting the box.

[Saga Dan]

Hi This is my first post to the site even though I have been hanging around for several months now.  I purchased a Woodmizer LT40 Manual in October and right now I have it stored for the winter.  I am pretty busy in the winters and would rather not have to worry about cleaning salt residue off my mill overtime I take it on the road.  But to the real point....  I have 15 years of experience, in my prior career, in the commercial roofing industry.  The questions I would have are as follows.  Who is responsible for roof protection?  Is the roof under warranty and is this acceptable with the manufacturer?  Who is responsible for the clean-up?  Most importantly maybe, who is responsible for safety and fall protection?  With this being a potential high profile sawing job, it may draw unwanted attention from some of the industry safety types.  I would not want to expose myself to potential fines for the sake of sawing in a high profile situation without having my bases covered with the general contractor.

[Peter Drouin]

And how are you going to move 20' beams to the mill. Use the crane?
If things looked good and the money was there I would do it. 8)

[slider]

As exciting as it sounds If the crane is on sight I would have them bring the beams down to you.much simpler.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Saga Dan.

As I was continuing to read, that was also my thought slider.  The logistics say to lower the beams, saw them on the ground, and then raise the lumber back up to the top.  Much less exciting, but much more logical.

[Chuck White]

Wood-Mizer most likely moves these mills around with a crane or hoist at times, so I think I would contact them to find the best "lifting points".

I would make sure that the sawhead is securely strapped down so it can't even wiggle!

I would also make sure that the loading arms are securely strapped down in the folded position.

[3Dog]

Excellent information again.  I didn't think about a lot of the points that were mentioned regarding roof, stray material etc.

Speaking only based on the prelim information I have, which isnt much , there is no area around the building to set the mill.  The beams are already on the roof (at least 12000 lineal feet of them, additional 5000 are offsite yet).  They intended to make dividers etc by simply stacking and pinning the beams together.  They found that this didnt work as well as planed due to variations in the different timbers. They reevaluated and determined that a better approach would be to mill 2 faces of the beams to make parallel surfaces plus all beams would be the same thickness which would decrease build time.  It would also make a much more stable divider, wall etc. 

We did talk a bit about the sawdust and waste wood that would need to be removed from the roof and that process didn't appear to be a problem on their end.

I will try and find out some additional information in the next day or so. Once I get that I will follow Brucer's advice and determine if it is feasible or not.

[Hilltop366]

I agree with Saga Dan (Welcome Dan) about the roof concerns, Sound like they are opening themselves up to potential roof damage, my thoughts about roofs are "put on then roofing then stay off as much as possible".

It would make more sense to me to take the beams off the roof and truck them off sight to be milled.

[FarmingSawyer]

When I secure my mill head for travel I use 2 sets of 2 pieces of 1/2" steel plate with two bolts running through them. One plate goes over the mill head rail by a wheel and the other goes under the track support. I use a battery impact wrench to tighten the nuts. One on each side of the head secures the mill from moving really well. The last thing you need is the head shifting even slightly and throwing the balance off.

See if you can talk to the crane company to find out what they require as well. They may have ideas which are sound too.

I once worked a residential job where there were 3 massive stone chimneys. I had to stack pallets of site chosen stone and then have a crane lift the pallets to the third story roof and swing them over the roof to an area by the eave between the chimneys. From there I had to unload each pallet and wheelbarrow the stone to the masons by the chimneys. The roof was metal and a fake over-roof was built on sleepers from 3/4 plywood. What a pain. I think the pitch was something like 2 or 3 in 12.....

I wouldn't hesitate to do this job and once the contract was signed and date set I'd promote the heck out of it!!

[Jim_Wahl]

A Forestry Forum member from Utah (if I remember correctly) has already done something similar to this with a mansion somewhere not too far from him. I'll do a search and see if I can find that thread again.

[Den-Den]

I would not worry too much about the roof, that is their problem and it already has several thousand pounds of timber stored on it.
I would worry about depending on the crane to move beams to and from the mill.  Cranes are busy around construction sites and you will likely have to get in line each time you need it; you may and may not be a priority to the crane operator (and the contractor).

[Warped]

I'd investigate a lifting platform you could park the mill on and strap it down for the lift. If the roof is a concern the mill be able to stay right on the platform.
Doesn't sound like the roof material is a concern so I would say just be careful and try to keep the sawdust out of the roof top pool. And be sure to take plenty of pool pics, if ya know what I mean....... 8)

[StimW]

I'll just say OMG! I can see this going wrong in so many ways.
For starters, the bigger the company the bigger the risk for the little guy! They know you see stars and bright lights but they know that they own you in so many ways.
I designed and built some golf range equipment for an international seller. I ended up working a year for free after expenses and they stole my designs! Don't tell me about patents! Again a joke for the little guy.
The only positive things I can add is if you go ahead, have "Replacement Value" stated in any contract for the mill.
Move off site and get paid as you produce.

[MP_Wall]

You need to get a gopro camera for the ride up and down with the mill, as well as when you are sawing. It will make a great video of the whole adventure both for you and Woodmizer and could provide help in case of a problem later on with the mentioned possible snags from sawing on the top of a building.
MPW

[Dave Shepard]

Working with cranes and on the roof may seem foreign to us, but to a big city construction company, it's probably just business as usual. If they are working on the roof, then it must be up to the task. There are all kinds of tricks to making big commercial jobs go faster, and putting skid loaders and small excavators on upper floors is quite common.

[backwoods sawyer]

When I worked in the the sawmill the third floor was the main production floor with the chip system taking up the lower two floor. Machine shop on the first floor, office filing room on the fifth floor.
We had a bridge crain that spaned the whole building with a mezamine on the forth floor and 20x24 whole to the first floor, I have put 30' pieces thru that hole ;)
During maintenace up grades the crane never stopped and could set machine centers with precition.
When the machine center was to heavy for the bridge crane, like the 6' drum chipper that was set in the basment, they would peel the roof off and bring in the big crane. 1/8" movments by way of radio kind of precition.

now our mills are light and agile in compairison.

once the mill is set bundles can be set in front of the mill as needed dought you would have to ask for the next bundle ;)

Lot less crane time to set the mill and bundles then set them all back down and back up. Eight floors takes some time to spool in and out. In this case it just makes sence to set the mill next to the product to be milled and mill on site.

The frame on the LT-40 is Ridged a four point lift with straps on the mill. I use a 2" ratchet strap around the sawhead and frame to keep the saw head from wiggling on the travel pin while traveling.

Pull up, disconnect, assist in strapping and meet it on the roof and get right to work, stop for photo opp when finished.

Site evals are a plus in these cases and a good opertunity for before photos ;D     

[Sprucegum]

On an hourly contract make sure you charge for stand-by time when you have to wait for the next bundle or beam  8)

[Chuck White]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 


Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

[Barney II]

Wow, that would be a great deal.  Just remember that you are right in the center of every inspectors business that has ever been thought up by mankind and just waiting to make a name for themselves by getting  the guy  over there on top of the building.  If you do just make sure you meet all fed and state specs..     No I am not paranoid  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Warped]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 


Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

Thanks Chuck!
Now, to see where Russell is.

[Chuck White]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 


Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

Thanks Chuck!
Now, to see where Russell is.

Russell is almost Dead-Center of St Lawrence County.

It's about 130 miles North of Syracuse!

[3Dog]

Chuck White -I am so afraid of heights that I will go nowhere near the edge.  I worked as a firefighter for 25 years. Climbing ladders and standing on roofs (even wielding a chainsaw) and being up in ladder trucks never bothered me until until the emergency was over and my adrenalin was gone.  After that point in time I was glad I had rubber boots on if you know what I mean. I just couldn't show it much but, still took my share of razzing.

Backwoods Sawyer-  Thanks for the detailed information.  Makes me feel a little better about the situation.

Barney II-  Inspectors....thanks, now I feel worse than I did before Backwoods Sawyer made me feel better..

No new info today. We have been doing the "tag, your it" with the phones.