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Author Topic: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.  (Read 3323 times)

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Offline lopet

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A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« on: February 08, 2015, 06:45:32 PM »
I would like to set up a hot water storage tank in my shop and using my outdoor boiler to heat it. My problem is I can't get the water in the tank to circulate on it's own ( cold water at bottom and hot water on top ). It's a old electric heater with burned out elements, but I was told it will work. As all the drawings on line show two or three in and outlets on the the tank and one at the bottom I am wondering, if it won't work with this one, because mine only has one on top and one at the bottom.
I am also higher as four inches above the tank with the top of the  heat exchanger, as the whole thing is taller as the tank.
My question would be, is there any chance it will work when I bring up the tank and have the inlet on the top  of the tank level with the outlet on the exchanger ? Just would like to know before I waste any more time. ;D
I still have a small circulating pump left, which I have replaced for a bigger one years ago. It would force the cold water through the jacket.  Would that be a alternative ?
Must have missed that class in school.  ;D    Any advise would be appreciated.
 

 

The two white pex pipes indicate supply and return from the boiler. Black pipe is cold water supply from well. Short little white pex pipe feeds in to return line and is only to top up the boiler.
 
And I tried to rotate the picture and I am not smart enough for that either. ;D

 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline lopet

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 06:52:09 PM »
Haa, I managed to make the picture smaller. It's in my gallery  if somebody can help me out.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline dustintheblood

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 07:27:16 PM »
Hi Lopet,

I've done exactly what you are trying to do.  Will send you a private message shortly with some tips and suppliers.

G
Case 75C, Case 1494, RangeRoad RR10T36, Igland 4001, Hardy 1400ST, WM LT40HD, WM Edger, ICS DH Kiln

Offline lopet

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 07:57:15 PM »
 

 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline 1270d

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 08:00:41 PM »
Should work, pipe your hot water into the bottom of the tank so it rises out of the top.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 08:13:17 PM »
its to tall. i went through all this once. you have 3/4 copper running 11/2 copper thats fine but where it goes into the water heater it needs to go at the higth of the shut off valve. mine will run gravity with the 007 pump shut off and its 50ft from the manifold to the water heater

Offline dustintheblood

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 08:14:17 PM »
With mine (which did work for years perfectly), the pipe leading from the top of the exchanger to the domestic hot water (in the tank) did not have that big bendy loop at the top.

The reason it works is that the hot water (in the tank) is heated and rises up and dumps into the top of the tank - pulling cooler water from the bottom of the tank - in a convection loop.

You may be able to try and insulate your top bend to kick start the convection, but it seems as though you're a bit high on that loop.

My exchanger length (placed vertically like yours) is only about 3/4 of the height of the tank.

Hope this helps.

If it doesn't I'll dig through some old files and find and then scan the documents that would help.
Case 75C, Case 1494, RangeRoad RR10T36, Igland 4001, Hardy 1400ST, WM LT40HD, WM Edger, ICS DH Kiln

Offline dustintheblood

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 08:15:19 PM »
snowstorm wrote while I typed.  He's correct!

Good luck with it!
Case 75C, Case 1494, RangeRoad RR10T36, Igland 4001, Hardy 1400ST, WM LT40HD, WM Edger, ICS DH Kiln

Offline lopet

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 08:16:38 PM »
Not sure what you mean by that.  The idea is to heat up the cold water in the tank by running the hot water from the wood boiler through the cooper jacket, but it won't circulate on it's own in the tank neither it gets warm.  Something is wrong , maybe I have to use cooper on top of the tank and not steel.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline snowstorm

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 08:23:30 PM »
my water heater is 47" tall the 3/4 copper is 46"then a 90 ell the 11/2 is 39"

Offline lopet

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2015, 08:34:02 PM »
My last post was meant as a reply to 1270d.

Snowstorm, we are getting back to my question in my first post. If I raise the tank about 18 " and leave the exchanger where it is and have the bottom fittings adjusted, on top use cooper fittings and go straight across back into the tank, you think it should work ?  To me it looks like the hot water coming out on top of the exchanger is fighting too much the cold water to get back into the tank.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline snowstorm

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 08:46:58 PM »
you have a lot of pipe an fittings there. why so many? i have the 3/4 going from the bottom to the top of the tank the hot from the owb goes to the 11/2 on the bottom and back to the manifold on the top. you have more than that

Offline snowstorm

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2015, 08:51:13 PM »
if its just storage couldnt you just go in the bottom an out the top? you sorta have it set up like a water heater

Offline coxy

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2015, 09:36:45 PM »
snowstorm is 100%   mine goes in the bottom comes out the top   and  I was told that the more elbows you have the harder it is for the water convection process

Offline beenthere

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 09:48:24 PM »
Ya'all have me thoroughly confused.   :)
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline 1270d

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2015, 09:55:01 PM »
Was on my phone and misunderstood.  Didn't look at the picture close enough either I guess.

Offline lopet

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 12:16:31 AM »
And I am confused even more now. Maybe i should try to explain a little more detailed.
Yes it's just meant as a storage tank and the only hot water I've got, is coming in from the wood boiler at the bottom of the
1 1/2 cooper and goes back in to the return on top of the 1 1/2. Black pipe on the right is water supply from well and is te ed off for the future sink also pushes in from the bottom of the tank to keep it full. Another t is installed  from the well water leading into return line to the wood boiler ( short white pex pipe coming up from bottom). It's only meant to top up the wood boiler when it's needed and has a valve on it. ( maybe it's  confusing ). I have the same thing in the basement, but thought it's more convenient now, since I have water in the shop.
My problem is the tank ( old electric heater ) is only about 40" tall but the exchanger is about 56" tall and with starting about 4 " off floor it's about 20" taller than the tank. Theoretic I should have warm water coming out on top off the tank    (red ball valve). From there it will go to the sink and that's all I want , warm and cold water at the sink.
The boiler line who comes into the shop runs first trough a baseboard heater in the " office " and then through a couple of truck rads to heat the shop. And then from the return line I   t ed off the line for my storage tank ( white pex pipe coming from ceiling and going to the bottom of exchanger). Exchanger gets plenty hot, can't touch it but the warm water coming out of the 3/4 cooper on top is not going back into the tank. That's why I thought installing a small pump would force it through, but like to avoid it as it should run " on it's own ".
Hope I explained a little better and still hope for some more answers.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline coxy

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 07:42:39 AM »
did you put a bleeder on there may be it got some air in there I have also had trouble with air on my old set up had to bleed air out at least 2x a month

Offline coxy

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 07:47:08 AM »
the more I look at it I think its got air to many elbows

Offline tractorman44

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Re: A little off topic. Water to water heat exchanger.
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2015, 07:49:29 AM »
Here is a site that will provide a lot of information on just the basic hot water circuit layout on conventional heating systems.  It doesn't show your EXACT layout, but it will show some good information on piping and how water should flow through the basic system.  It may or may not lead you to a conclusion, but it may be a good start. What the heck, it can't hurt !!!

http://www.miketheboilerman.com/pipeworklayouts.htm


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