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Author Topic: Couple of questions  (Read 3033 times)

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Offline valley ranch

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Couple of questions
« on: February 12, 2015, 10:26:44 PM »
Greetings. Been working on the mill. Few more part to get.
Plan to use a Kohler Magnum 18.

Speed? Band blade speed 4500fpm  about right? Engine speed about 3300rpm
Thinking about a 3" pulley on the motor and a 10.25" or 10.75" pulley on the drive band wheel.

Centrifugal clutch: Planing to file/sand the running engine shaft down 1/16" to use a 1" clutch instead of 1 1/8".

 Just like your opinion on the above.


Like to post a picture. Let me see how.
Thanks
/home/yerani/Pictures/mill2.JPG
Richard

Offline schmism

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2015, 01:49:19 AM »
Diameter of bandsaw wheel X 3.14 = _____ then divide by 12 the total is in ft....

guessing at something like 26" band wheels...  you would want a band wheel RPM of ~661  (based on your good number of 4500fpm)

to go from 661 band wheel rpm to 3300 engine rpm you need a 5x reduction/increase in pulley number.   eg 3" engine pulley =15" band wheel pulley


Do you already have the engine?   If not i would pick one that has a 1" shaft.   they make a Kohler 674cc engine with a 1" output.   Modifying the shaft means you also have to either recut the keyway or grind the key down so that it also fits.   the key is the item doing your power transfer... i dont know that i would be happy with a trimmed down key.
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Online ladylake

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2015, 04:22:00 AM »

 I'd go bigger than 3" on the engine to keep it from slipping.  Steve
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2015, 05:52:15 AM »
@valley ranch,I like to go to whatever post or start a new topic first to include a picture.Go to your gallery,it will open in a new window.Click onto your album,then click onto whatever picture you want,it will get bigger,than scroll down a little to find,Insert Image In Post,click onto that,click Yes and that is it. Some have to copy/paste the link to work.I like to hit the enter key at least once or twice to move the picture down away from what I am typing. The enter key really helps to leave some white space if posting more than one picture. Use the preview button to see how it looks and modify it if needed.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline dgdrls

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 06:01:31 AM »
valley r,

you need to spec a set of band wheels
and what size bands you want to pull.

Look to Cooks for some guidance or Suffolk machine
lots of great info on bands and wheels with those folks,

I would not reduce the size of the output shaft on the motor,
Best
DGDrls



Offline valley ranch

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2015, 02:13:46 AM »
Hi,  dgdris,I have 19" band wheels. I have the engine, Kohler magnum 18. I figure I'll be able to cut the grove deeper for the key.

schmism, I used the calculations you have, I think, I came up with a different answer.  I came up needing 905 rpm, and that I could get close with a 3" &  10.25 or 10.75. Maybe I need to check it again.

19"wheel X 3.14= 59.66 divided by12 =4.97  blade speed wanted 4500 divided by 4.97 =905 blade shaft rpm. I come pretty close with the pulleys above.

Is this right or have I added or subtracted wrong?

Richard



Offline valley ranch

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2015, 02:51:13 AM »
TEST

 


I haven't welded the forks to the carriage yet.

Offline valley ranch

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2015, 02:57:43 AM »
Thanks for the information: how to post pictures.

 


I'm having to grind the tube to slide in, because that's what I have and what I have doesn't fit.

Offline ozarkgem

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2015, 08:28:52 AM »
rather than trying to file or sand the shaft down 1/8 take it to a machine shop and have it turned. You won't be able to get it round using a file and it will take a lonnnnnnng time and you will not be happy with the results. Plus you will need a keyway in it also.
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Online Dave Shepard

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2015, 10:03:22 AM »
rather than trying to file or sand the shaft down 1/8 take it to a machine shop and have it turned. You won't be able to get it round using a file and it will take a lonnnnnnng time and you will not be happy with the results. Plus you will need a keyway in it also.

 smiley_thumbsup
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Offline BCsaw

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2015, 10:59:54 AM »
Be careful about the centrifugal clutch. You need a clutch that will be able to transfer the power that you are supplying. A clutch for the larger shaft is more money but can handle the power without slipping. Don't put any clutch on there ensure it can do the job! I think you would be loosing valuable strength by reducing the diameter. Would be playing with fire in my opinion.

Take care and good luck with the build.
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Offline valley ranch

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2015, 11:24:38 AM »
ozarkgem, With the engine turning it will be a lathe, I can get it right.

I'd like to here more, what you guys think about the clutch, is there that much drag, is the belt going to slip?

If I was building a dune buggy I'd think differently.

Richard

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2015, 11:51:49 AM »
Electric clutches on sawmills generally haven't worked out very well. You need to go look at as many sawmills as possible. Most of them use the old, tried and true loosened belt for a clutch. Much cheaper, simpler, works well and you can use multiple belts to handle up to 40-50 hp.
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2015, 12:13:37 PM »
With 18hp I would be tempted to go with 2 belts especially if you need to run a 3" on the motor pulley.

If you could go with a larger pulley on the engine and put a idler/tensioner on the slack side close to the pulley then one belt may do the trick.

Offline boscojmb

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2015, 01:20:56 PM »
Hi,
My mill has a centrifugal clutch and it works OK.
My engine is 51HP. My clutch is rated to 60HP and uses a 3B belt.
Starting the bandwheels from a dead stop is pushing the clutch to it's limit.
It seems like the clutch needs a higher HP rating than the engine.
I wish I had one size bigger clutch and a 4B belt. :)


I would not alter your crankshaft diameter for two reasons.

1.) Your crankshaft is hardened - most likely case hardened. If it is case hardened and you remove the hard outside it will break. Even if it's not case hardened, reducing the diameter by 1/8" will substantially reduce the strength.
2.) Sanding /filing/ grinding the crankshaft even while it's turning will make the crankshaft out of round. I suspect the clutch will break shaft keys and need repeated tightening.


John B.

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Offline valley ranch

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2015, 10:21:59 PM »
Well those are some things to think about. Maybe I will use an idler, I'll give it some more think.

Thanks

Richard

Offline ozarkgem

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2015, 06:59:52 AM »
ozarkgem, With the engine turning it will be a lathe, I can get it right.

I'd like to here more, what you guys think about the clutch, is there that much drag, is the belt going to slip?

If I was building a dune buggy I'd think differently.

Richard
It won't be a lathe. No more than an axle on your car going down the road is a lathe. You will not be able to hold the cutter, file or what ever at the tolerance you need.  a lathe cutting tool is rigid and will not move when cutting.( assuming you lathe is not worn out). Give it a try on a throw away piece first. Just trying to save you a lot of time and money. You want it done right. 
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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2015, 07:36:57 AM »
 :P
Boy, back in my day..

Offline kelLOGg

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2015, 08:08:30 AM »
Electric clutches on sawmills generally haven't worked out very well. You need to go look at as many sawmills as possible. Most of them use the old, tried and true loosened belt for a clutch. Much cheaper, simpler, works well and you can use multiple belts to handle up to 40-50 hp.

That's interesting, Piney. I had a problem of my belt slipping off when I disengaged while idling. I considered going to a clutch so the belt would never lose tension. Instead, I made a sorta cage with 1/4" steel rod around the belt to keep it close to the wheel. If I disengage slowly it stays aligned - at least so far.

Valley Ranch, maybe this will helpful.
Bob


Bob

 
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Offline valley ranch

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2015, 01:18:27 PM »
Thanks guys, kelLOGg, glad you posted the picture.

Re: the clutch~ I was thinking a centrifugal that would engage at 1800rpm~

why would a clutch shear keys?

 a centrifugal clutch doesn't slam on like when you drop the clutch in a race, it grips as the engine rpm rise, just as on a lawn tractor or go cart. Yes or no

Re: dressing the engine shaft~ I've dressed shafts on a lathe with file and crocus paper and kept
       tolerance, why would a running engine there be tolerance loss?

       On a different note: With tandem belts, I could still use an idler/tensioner right? If I went     
       that way.

Thanks for taking time and thinking with me. You fellows are working with mills and have a better view of some things.

I've been lead Mechanic and liked to cut up touches with the mechanics when it came to conveyors and other machines, how to get and keep them running.

It is a big help talking with you.

Richard



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