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Author Topic: 404 skip chain choices  (Read 4148 times)

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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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404 skip chain choices
« on: February 23, 2015, 09:41:41 AM »
Any experience on which of these chains keeps an edge better, oils better, or is better for other reason?  They're both semi-chisel full skip.   MS880/59" bar, mostly noodling/semi-noodling to split larger (edit-hardwood) logs in half.

Stihl 46RMF
OR27AX
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 09:57:02 AM »
The locals when using the big machines always came in for the OR27AX for a fast cutting .404. It has the speed for production timberfalling.

Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

Offline Mn woodchuck

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 08:27:37 PM »
 ;D ;D
to soon oldt to late schmart!
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 02:46:16 PM »
Please forgive if I pester you once again about this.  Just got my 59" bar and  a Stihl micro chisel skip 46RMF chain for my MS880.   Want to get at least two or three more of these long chains and seeking opinion about which style would serve me best.

 I am wondering whether round chisel will work better for splitting large logs (noodling).  But I can't find any Stihl 46RSF (round chisel skip) anywhere, dealers here don't have it.   In Oregon round chisel skip  there is  OR 68JX,  or OR 59J (ramp gauges), which I can get.

Here are my questions (mostly anticipating splitting large oak logs): 

1) opinion on round chisel vs micro chisel for noodling,  should I just stick with several 46RMF chains or try some OR round filed chain too.

2) if round chain is worth a try, should I get 68JX or 59J .

3) is skip obviously necessary for the 59" bar when noodling, or should I consider trying some full  comp?  Maybe more teeth break up the noodles?  I can get Stihl 46RS (round chisel full comp) from Bailey's and stick with Stihl.

Thanks.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline Ed

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 03:05:48 PM »
I wouldn't try full comp.....my 084, 60" came with it originally (dealer didn't know any better). It was terrible, the saw would hardly pull it, to many teeth in the cut on large logs.

The fact that the bar was a hardnose didn't help either.

Ed

Offline 01crewcab

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 11:05:38 PM »
Oregon 27AX is round filed chain. Is in fact "chipper' or round tooth. Yes you want full skip. Not real familiar with .404X .063 Stihl chain. Always ran either Oregon or Carlton.
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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 11:21:09 PM »
Here's my Stihl 46RSF on a 36" Alaskan mill. Mills real nice in both spruce and birch that I mostly cut.
I recommend chisel over semi chisel for noodle rip cutting.
 

 
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 06:28:52 AM »
Thank you for your comments.  I can't find 46RSF online or around here.  Know anyone selling it?  Short of that any experience with OR 59J or 68JX or opinion which would be better for lengthwise sawing?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline JohnG28

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 08:54:57 AM »
I wouldn't want to file a 60" full comp chain!  :o
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 12:13:41 PM »
Thank you for your comments.  I can't find 46RSF online or around here.  Know anyone selling it?  Short of that any experience with OR 59J or 68JX or opinion which would be better for lengthwise sawing?
You will need to go to a Stihl dealer for that chain, they are not allowed to sell online. We don't sell much .404 ripping chain, Oregon does not offer pre cut loops and few want a roll.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 12:15:34 PM »
My 090 pulls a full comp semi chisel .404 harvestor Stihl chain in 60". ;D
 

 
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 05:30:30 PM »
Thank you for your comments.  I can't find 46RSF online or around here.  Know anyone selling it?  Short of that any experience with OR 59J or 68JX or opinion which would be better for lengthwise sawing?
You will need to go to a Stihl dealer for that chain, they are not allowed to sell online. We don't sell much .404 ripping chain, Oregon does not offer pre cut loops and few want a roll.
Clarifying, Stihl dealers around here don't have the 46RSF in their books.   Bailey's while not a Stihl dealer, currently lists 46RS (full comp round chisel), 46RM (full comp micro chisel), 46RMF (skip micro chisel), and 46RSLF (skip square chisel), but no 46RSF (skip round chisel).
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 08:55:46 PM »
Terrific timber. Order the 46RSLF from Bailey's . Use it until dull, then round file it and you then have 46RSF.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 05:05:25 AM »
Terrific timber. Order the 46RSLF from Bailey's . Use it until dull, then round file it and you then have 46RSF.
This sounds great.   Will the first filing be like a regular filing or remove a lot of material/shorten the tooth?   I have a cyclone CBN wheel if necessary was going to try to stick to hand filing though.

Your pic above brings another thought to mind, I have bulk OR16 harvester chain that I use on my Peterson slabber.  Says not for hand held use but don't see why, maybe the depth gauges are a bit lower?  Is that what you're using in cutting the paper roll & how do you think it would be for ripping logs?  Much cheaper than 46RSLF. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 05:13:21 PM »
That 46RSLF actually has a little more cutter length then round ground 46RS if my memory is correct. . Very easy to round file from square, stay with the 15 top plate angle.

I tried 46RS .404 chisel on those big 54" diameter kraft paper rolls but would be completely dull before I got through. Toughest fiber I've ever cut. Was told by the paper mill techs there was alot of natural grit in the the pulp which is abrasive.
Only the semi chisel harvestor chain could hold an edge and not stretch to make the 5 minute at WOT cut.
Then it needed a light touch up with the round file to get the edge back , took about 5-8 minutes.
We cut over 40 rolls in half  one day. Did that for several months and at $100 hr it was a good contract. The mill has since purchased a $30,000 guillotine machine to cut the cull rolls so they could fit them back into the repulper.

Yes that harvestor chain has no anti kickback features  at all so  not recommended for hand held use.
.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 05:37:31 PM »
Should I get one of those files and try my hand at filing the square chisel a time or two? Madsen's has a detailed instruction of how to do it.  Or is it just too hard to do freehand?
I have a feeling I'm going to be impressed with how it cuts especially with a new chain.   That's all I need is to start thinking about getting a square chisel grinder.  ::) ::) ::)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 06:01:42 PM »
Square filing takes alot of patience to learn. Some like the flat bevel files. Some like the triangular bevels.
I believe if you round filed for many years and are good at it, then go trying to learn chisel bit filing is really tough.
Easier to learn  either one first or learn them both together. Just my opinion.  :D
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 05:32:30 AM »
I know what to do now.  Thanks so much everyone I sure appreciate this Forum.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline Oliver1655

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 07:58:52 AM »
Like Holman's advise. 

If you get a Stihl 2 in 1 file for the .404 chain, you will find you can sharpen the chain fairly quickly with it keeping the raker height filed at the same time.  (There is not setup time.  Just mark the starting tooth & file.)  With full comp chain the back guide bar on the file will not have a tooth to ride on but with the wide, flat handles, it is easy to keep it level.

John

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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: 404 skip chain choices
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 08:22:50 AM »
Don't know the 2 in 1 file, what is it?  Link?

p.s. found it here.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57zA9OOjs0

Anyone tried this?   Looks good but downside is how to use up the raker flat file efficiently, seems like this guide allows only use of a center portion of the flat file.  Also rotating the round files is it easy?

Not seeing the 2 in 1 guide for 404, in the stihl catalog.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed


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