Directional felling with hand tools?

[CCC4]

Nice work! I think that cut is called a "Coos Bay". I was hoping this cut would bet mentioned for dealing with lean and a cross cut.

Nothman and Gologit can give better insight but I think it is a Coos Bay.

[John Mc]

I'm trying to figure out the advantage of this cut. Is it that you have less wood to cut when making your final back cut, so you can cut faster and "keep up with the tree" to get your hinge down to the appropriate thickness before the tree tips too far?

[thecfarm]

My Father always cut the corners or the sides. I never saw a barber chair and really had no idea what one was until I started to pile brush for a housing development. I heard "run" and had no idea what was going on. That was an eye opener.  :

[AT sawyer]

I'm trying to figure out the advantage of this cut. Is it that you have less wood to cut when making your final back cut, so you can cut faster and "keep up with the tree" to get your hinge down to the appropriate thickness before the tree tips too far?

By cutting the corners, you're removing the sapwood which is more likely to split and barber chair, but you keep a point of holding wood all the way back. When you start the back cut, there is very little sapwood left to barber chair and you're quickly into heartwood which is less likely to split.

[beenthere]

When you start the back cut, there is very little sapwood left to barber chair and you're quickly into heartwood which is less likely to split.

Sorry, but I don't follow that reasoning.

I follow John Mc as being a bit more logical.

Leaves me with "why" ?

[AT sawyer]

Sorry, but I don't follow that reasoning.

I follow John Mc as being a bit more logical.

Leaves me with "why" ?

Heartwood is denser and less likely to split, overall there is less wood subject to the tension forces of the leaning tree, and the sawing is faster into the pie wedge left behind. It's sort of like a plunge cut in that you remove a fair amount of holding wood from the sides while still retaining the backstrap.

[beenthere]

AT
Maybe this document will help you with the heartwood properties...

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn147.pdf

Maybe you have one that spells it out differently. I'd be interested in it.

[so il logger]

I can not speak to different regions timber, but I will say that heartwood will barberchair. Sapwood around here if a guy don't get it cut while falling will cause a strip being torn off of the side of the butt log. I can see where cutting the sides like that would speed up the backcut and that is probably why guy's like my grandpa cut that way with cross cuts.I would love to learn my gpa's knowledge but he's passed. Heartwood will barberchair

[SwampDonkey]

Difference in mechanical properties due to density is mostly between earlywood and latewood, and ring thickness not sapwood versus heartwood. In most cases the earlywood thickness (width) is fairly consistent across the tree diameter and more rapid, less dense, growth. When wood is being laid down it happens just under the bark, it's the same biological process for heart or sapwood. The more latewood, the more dense the wood. The closer to a tree pith you get the less favorable mechanical properties are. This a zone of juvenile wood that will not behave favorably in some ways (drying and checking) as opposed to wood closer to the bark. One could probably say there is more stress in this zone. As far as stress from a lean, have a look at the cross section of a leaner and see the ring pattern. If the tree was leaning fairly young you'll see the affect across the radius of the tree cross section from pith outward.

[CCC4]

Personally I have never used the Coos Bay...but I see where it can have its advantages in soft wood. There is another version of it that the holding wood is left in a T ...I wld probably use that version in hardwood.

[AT sawyer]

AT
Maybe this document will help you with the heartwood properties...

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn147.pdf

Maybe you have one that spells it out differently. I'd be interested in it.

Thanks for that, been there. If the splitting properties of heartwood vs. sapwood are indistinguishable, I stand corrected. My photos were taken at at USFS felling course where cutting the corners of leaners was discussed in detail. This discussion included removing most of the sapwood.  But sapwood removal was was going to happen anyway given the geometry of the cut, which creates two linear cuts across the trunk's diameter (a chord) and leaves a point of holding wood all the way back. The cut removes both sapwood and a fair amount of heartwood in the process. Once the back cut begins, there is less overall wood still attached to the stump, particularly at the point of highest tension to generate a barber chair condition. While it could still happen, the likelihood is reduced.

[mad murdock]

That is a real clear explanation AT, and it makes total sense. I think the confusion comes in when one draws comparisons between chainsaw felling and hand saw felling. The speed difference allows for different techniques and strategies. My best advice to someone who is left scratching their head would be to get a good crosscut or other good handsaw tuned up and go fell a coupe trees, you will have a way better understanding of the frame of reference from which AT speaks. Each technique has its place, IMO, just a lot of variables that have to be taken into consideration with each tree you contemplate felling, and as is almost always the case, no 2 trees fall the same. Thanks for the reference link BT, and forths pics and explanation AT.  Great thread.

[Mitchell027]

Thank you everyone for your input. This has been extremely useful to read and as Murdock says, I think it's time to put them to use and to begin.  ;D

Step one: procure sharp axe and crosscut saw!   :laugh:

[lumberjack48]

  I fell trees for 30 yrs and up to 80 plus cords of Aspen in one day. I never used the bore cut, i used the box cut on bad leaner's, which you could do with a cross cut saw. If one is leaning to far back, and wedges won't tip it, use a timber jack. When i was strip cutting, this is felling, bucking up, piling by hand and making skid road by hand. Just in case i got my saw stuck when falling and a push pole wasn't enough to get the saw out. My father showed me how to make a timber jack, cut a small tree, about 5,6 inch dia, then about 16 feet long. Put the big end at the base of the tree, put a notch in it about six feet up. Then put a notch in the tree with a axe as high as you can reach. Now you need 6,7 foot piece, about 4 inch dia., this will go between the notch on the pole and the tree. It takes two guys, one to hold the short piece while the other lifts up on the long pole. Once the short piece is in place, both guys can lift up on the pole. The short piece might have to be cut shorter or you might need a longer one, or the notch on the pole put lower or higher. Nothing edged in stone, just what works the best. 

[Ed_K]

Had a hard time picturing that till I figured out that the long pole was flat on the ground  ;D .I'll have that stored for next time I say "well what do I do now"  8) .