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Author Topic: What are these called?  (Read 3357 times)

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Offline Brian_Weekley

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What are these called?
« on: March 18, 2015, 10:06:56 PM »
In the picture below, there's an example of slanted, intermediate beams supporting the rafters.  I also saw an example of this in a building at the Hancock Shaker Village.  Are these just considered slanted queen posts or is there another name for these?

 
e aho laula

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2015, 10:11:59 PM »
The are not called slanted but Canted queen posts and they are holding up a principal purlin plate.

The small timber joining the queen post above the two queen post braces is called a strut.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Roger Nair

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2015, 09:25:52 AM »
I use the term canted purlin post and reserve queen post for truss work, although the queen post in a truss isn't really a post, it just looks like one.   The language I use is not logical, even though I pretend to be.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2015, 09:50:51 AM »
The vertical queen posts take up less floor space compared to the canted queen/purlin posts and struts.  Do the canted queen posts offer any advantage?  If so, under what circumstances would you choose to use them?

Thanks, Brian
e aho laula

Offline Roger Nair

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2015, 10:13:13 AM »
Brian, in the mid-Atlantic the canted purlin post is very common in barn construction.   The apex is left clear and hay tracks can be installed, loose hay is piled in and there is no issue with floor space.  The structural advantage is that the roof load can be distributed over multiple points, a common technique in the pre-portland cement foundation era.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2015, 10:30:03 AM »
Amenable for the hay track makes perfect sense.  You wouldn't have the horizontal beams between the vertical queen posts to contend with...


e aho laula

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2015, 11:03:19 AM »
  Do the canted queen posts offer any advantage?

With a canted queen post the top tenon enters the purlin plate with a standard straight mortise and tenon joint. The queen post bottom tenon is cut on the angle, and enters the top of the tie beam with a tenon mortise some what similar to a brace.

You would use this when you want a principal purlin plate to support your rafters.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Heartwood

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2015, 01:27:43 PM »
These are canted purlin posts, and support a principle purlin. A plate has plumb sides, and a purlin is tipped into the roof plane. The canted posts eliminated the need for a straining beam, the beam in compression that would connect two vertical posts, which would want to tip inwards from the roof load. The hay track comes in about 1860, so this helps date the building.

Technically I think queen posts and king posts (and even prince posts) are reserved for truss descriptions. Don't ask about earl or duke or princess posts....

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2015, 04:27:50 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, Will.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Heartwood

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2015, 05:53:44 PM »
I had to go back and check that the Glossary you have so excellently provided on this site agreed with me, Jim. All these terms are used so interchangeably now that perhaps the distinction is moot.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2015, 06:10:13 PM »
Amenable for the hay track makes perfect sense.  You wouldn't have the horizontal beams between the vertical queen posts to contend with...



The youtube that came up after this one is really interesting.  It shows how the trolly actually works and the different types of hooks/claws that were used over the years.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2015, 07:23:00 PM »
Yes, they are cool.  I actually have a trolley, the hay hooks, and rafter brackets.  Picked them up on Craigslist a few years ago.  My plan is to restore it and install in my barn--not for hay, but just as a novelty.  Maybe as a fun ride for the intrepid!
e aho laula

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2015, 07:50:49 PM »
This is a very common Barn design in the mid-west too.  Here in IL for sure.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline esarratt

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 09:39:28 PM »
  Do the canted queen posts offer any advantage?

With a canted queen post the top tenon enters the purlin plate with a standard straight mortise and tenon joint. The queen post bottom tenon is cut on the angle, and enters the top of the tie beam with a tenon mortise some what similar to a brace.

You would use this when you want a principal purlin plate to support your rafters.

Jim Rogers

So would a non-canted (vertical) queen post add the same amount of support as the canted one in the picture?

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2015, 11:18:54 PM »
So would a non-canted (vertical) queen post add the same amount of support as the canted one in the picture?

I would think they would be similar if a straining beam was also included between the non-canted, queen posts.
e aho laula

Offline S.Hyland

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Re: What are these called?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 08:58:25 PM »
I suppose that the canted posts put more of the plate load closer to the outer posts and center post. If the Queen is vertical it would put the load directly in the middle of that crossbeam span. (Assuming one central post as in the picture.) Personally I have always liked this design, very snazzy! 8) 
It may be that when we no longer know which way to go that we have come to our real journey. The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings.
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