The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts





Author Topic: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?  (Read 942 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aranck

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Newtonburg Pennsylvania 15757
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« on: March 31, 2015, 10:55:54 AM »
Howdy, first post, brand new member.  I live in western Pennsylvania on a small woodlot, very enthusiastic but I don't know much.  Great wealth of wisdom here.

I've heard and read that some trees in a mixed hardwood forest will not be growing significantly but will nonetheless stand there for a long time.  I would guess this would still slow down the growth of other trees.  What's more, the non-growing tree might as well be harvested before it dies and rots.

Anyone care to guess what percentage of trees in a hardwood forest fall into the no-growth/slow-growth category?
Is it worth the effort to cut these down?

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 30070
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 11:02:54 AM »
Aranck,welcome to the forum. My Father and me was cutting some big white pine on his land,3 feet across was normal,trees 70-80 years old. I cut one of the big ones and snapped off a small pine that looked alot like a telephone pole,tall and straight. My Father mentioned ,that was too bad,it was a real nice looking tree and it was. I cut that nice looking one down,I could not even count the rings on that tree. I called my Father over to show him. We both felt that tree was as old as the one that I had cut down. One was well over 3 feet across and this was not much bigger than a foot across. Suppress growth at it's finest. But we did not find many more like that one.
I can't comment on what you have,but just a story on my land.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Texas Ranger

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 7140
  • Age: 79
  • Location: Livingston, Texas, God's Country
  • Gender: Male
  • Texan, by God and by choice.
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 11:36:36 AM »
Aranck, welcome to the forum.  Fill in some of the data so we can tell where you are located, and might get an idea of species you are working with.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Online Ianab

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13865
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Stratford , New Zealand
  • Gender: Male
  • Marmite on toast is a real breakfast
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 03:24:15 PM »
Percentage is going to depend on how the forest was managed in the past.

One of the worst things you can do is a "Diameter Cut". This is where you send the logger in to "cut everything over x inches". This means they take out the best trees, and leave the weak, spindly and suppressed junk. Then you come back in 10 years, and the poor quality trees you left behind haven't grown much, just shaded the new regenerating trees, and slowed their growth as well. This is like Cfarm's example. If the small tree had been left, it wasn't suddenly going to start growing again

The tricky part is to tell the difference between a healthy vigorous young tree that's still growing strongly, and should be left for the next harvest, and an old, nature and spindly tree, that has missed the last 2 cuts, will never amount to anything, and is really just a waste of space and light.

That's where the knowledge and experience of a forester come in, and local knowledge. Knowing what to leave, that will be your next harvest, and what you may as well take out, even if it's only firewood. Even if it's worthless, that's not going to change in the future, so you remove it, and hopefully something more useful will grow in that space. Especially if you get in and do some planting, thinning, weeding etc to encourage the regrowth you actually want.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline tmbrcruiser

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Bridgeville, Delaware
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 08:48:53 PM »
Trees are basically divided into to groups shade tolerant and shade intolerant. Some species are able to germinate and grow in the understory, shade tolerant. Other species are only able to grow in full or nearly full sunshine, shade intolerant. The slow growth on shade intolerant species does not improve as much as shade tolerant species will upon being released. So it would be proper to harvest small shade intolerant stems, but small shade tolerant tree of good form will respond to being released and many times grow into very nice logs. Learn your species and look at the form before you make the decision to cut. Trees of poor form should almost always be cut.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

Offline sprucebunny

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Northern NH
  • Gender: Female
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 09:12:23 PM »
Welcome to the forum.
We can't tell you the percentage but you can learn to tell which are which.

Things I've learned in my forest:
One clue is that the older trees will have more lichen and moss on them especially around the bottom. Often, when these are cut they have a dark spot at the heart(red maple and w. birch )

Another thing to look at is wether the bark looks like it is expanding or if the bark on a small tree is as old looking as the bigger trees.

What types of trees do you have on your land ???
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Offline WDH

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30112
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Perry, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • April 1998 - August 2008
    • Share Post
    • hamsleyhardwood.com
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 09:50:04 PM »
The size and health of the crown will give you a good clue as to the vigor of a tree.  Leaves and needles grow wood.  Small, spindly, suppressed, trees with very small crowns will not respond quickly since they do not possess the photosynthetic surface to take advantage of the sunlight if released.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Aranck

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Newtonburg Pennsylvania 15757
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 04:13:04 PM »
Thanks to all for useful input and the welcome.

Sprucebunny, I have mostly Norwegian maple, with some rock oak/swamp oak, black cherry, hemlock, scattered birch.  Lots of witch hazel understory.  I'm on a ridge and wind is a big issue in spots.  I think originally it was probably hemlock because adjacent property has some ancient hemlocks.

I would like to try to get some red oaks and walnuts going, and some darn red maples.  I have planted hemlocks along streambeds.  There's a lot of thinning to be done.

Offline SwampDonkey

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 37502
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Centreville, NB
  • Gender: Male
  • Large Tooth
    • Share Post
Re: How many slow- or no-growth trees are there?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 05:24:31 PM »
Thinning is good. It's time well spent. It allows you to first off: space the thick growth; select the best trees you want to stand and there will be some poorer ones to stand to keep proper stand density; improve growth rate; improve forest health.

I have thinned most all of my land once, planted a lot to. I will thin again to take down some of the ones needed for proper spacing that may not be real great and use a few that I am now pruning for some clear wood. I will probably thin in patches when needed and cut down windthrows and leaners in the mean time. I have a bit of aspen to chunk up from the hurricane last summer. Not much aspen on my land, more softwood, maple and ash. One thing I notice about the next generation aspens is they are not all that great in form except largetooth and balm. I see a lot of canker in trembling aspen. One will look nice, and then all the sudden next year girdled by hypoxolyn canker. And this is in mixed stands. A friend says aspen is in decline across the continent. He studies pests of trees working for Forestry Canada.
Move'n on.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Is slow growth or fast growth better?

Started by Lnewman on Ask The Forester

18 Replies
1558 Views
Last post November 28, 2014, 08:46:44 PM
by Ron Wenrich
xx
Slow growth or Fast growth?

Started by POSTON WIDEHEAD on Sawmills and Milling

7 Replies
676 Views
Last post September 01, 2014, 10:21:25 PM
by Magicman
grin
A way to slow my son's growth down

Started by Part_Timer on Wanted

22 Replies
6384 Views
Last post August 22, 2006, 10:19:34 PM
by katie-did
xx
Increased growth in trees???

Started by Woodhog on Ask The Forester

2 Replies
1342 Views
Last post January 18, 2008, 02:19:18 PM
by ID4ster
 


Powered by EzPortal