homemade bandsaw mill, help

[gww]

Ox

Some of those poeple that ask are already thinking of how they can use it too.  They won't be able to though cause I built a bunch of buggs in it that only I will understand how to make it work :laugh:.  Some will actually probly help make it better before it is over cause thier personality won't allow such sloppyness and they will be compelled to fix some of it and will be better at it then me.  I think they like the mill just don't understand me.

My belt system is not working but I can fix some of it. Some of it may cause me trouble for ever.  The bad part of fixing it is more do re me and more searching for parts.  I need another keeper so I can adjust the pully out for better alinement.  I need a idler pully and strong spring for both the motor pully and for the wheel pully.   Alinement  would maby fix the belt eating of my home made pully because it didn't eat pullies untill I changed my drive situation.  An idler pully would allow me a bit less stress on tightness but probly still not slip cause it wasn't slipping bad before and is now unless I tighten it till it is continually stretching the belt. Not a lot of room to work with though.  It cuts better every time I tighten the belt.

I will never paint it cause I don't care, I might find a way to cover it to keep it from getting water in every thing.

I just want to cut wood well and today it did not cut a cedar very well at all.  Lots of waves and following knots and I am convinced that most of it this time is due to belt slipping.  I don't think that was the case when it was running fast and cutting waves.

I wish I could coat my home made pully with the stuff they sprayed in my pickup bed.

Anyway, I still think I got it about wupped as soon as I adress the belt slipage.

Bet you wanted to know all that huh.
gww

[Ox]

"Bet you wanted you know all that huh" - You bet I do.  The more I learn about how you are the better I am able to try to help you!
The building in bugs part had me laughing, too funny!  :D
The first cutting problem was running too fast and burning teeth.  Second cutting problem is now belt slippage.  If you can't keep the blade running the same and the engine running the same speed it'll do weird things.  You know that and you're on the way to fixing it which is good.
I don't care much how things look either.  I paint things to keep rust at bay.  The looking better part just comes along by itself.
Have you ever thought of going to a junkyard and getting serpentine belts and pulleys for next to no $?  You can't hold a candle to a v belt vs. a serpentine belt for longevity and grip.  Any of the older Chevy small blocks work great and replacement parts are pretty cheap now.  Heck, you could throw and old non working alternator up there just for the pulley as an idler.  Bearings in those things last forever.
Maybe it's a good idea to let a feller you know can't stand things being the way they are on your mill to use it for awhile.  Tell him it cuts now but needs tinkering.  Let him use it but the payment for rent would be to fix it up some.  Maybe by doing this enough times it'll be right where you want it!  Sounds like a good trade off to me...
I enjoy this what we have going on here.  What a nice place to meet and hang out with good people.  I am glad for the Forestry Forum. 

[gww]

Ox

Heck, you could throw and old non working alternator up there just for the pulley as an idler.  Bearings in those things last forever.

Funny you should mention that.  I just took an old altinator apart for the bearing and it is on my old guides, you know, the ones I burnt out.  I was looking at the pully on it at the time to see if I could make a roller guide out of it.

I finaly moved my motor tensioner to a differrent place.  It was right after the belt was leaving the pully on the motor, it is now before the belt gets to the motor.  I believe this is backwards but I had no way to use a spring like it was.  I could have maby figured a way to use it on the same side as it was with a spring but I had a brain fart and thought I was putting it on right till the minute I sit down to write this. jeeeze.  It was ok and didn't seem top be slipping where it was but I was throwing a belt every once in a while and it was flipping all over the place due to loseness.  I put a plastic pipe over my gas line cause it was bouncing up and rubbing it intermittidly.  With the tensioner pully haveing a spring and me being able to tighten it, it takes that flopping out.

I had to buy another wheel belt.  I bought a keeper so I could move the pullys out a bit.  I had every intention of puttin an idler pully on the drive wheel but in the end I just used the jack and tightened it well.  It doesn't seem to be slipping and the belt did not flip and though I only made two cuts, It didn't seem to be streching the belt or tearing it up.  Time will tell.  I bought this belt at orslens and the last belt was at an auto parts store.  This one was ten buck higher and I was going to stop at the auto place but couldn't make myself go to two places when I knew I could get everyting at one and not take a chance of having to come back cause they didn't have it.

Every thing was going well and then my blade broke.  I don't quite get that but I was pushing it a little.  I had put the blade that I had cut the two and a half oak logs back on and it seemed to be cutting ok, not great but ok.  I am wondering if I might be running a bit to tight on tension as it was probly tigher today then I have ever run it.  It was tigher but not more then one bolt thread tighter.  I hope it was a fluke cause that is the first blade I ever got more then sixty board feet from.  I had made three fast cuts with it before I slowed the mill down so there is still hope for the other blades. 

I really didn't see that much of an improvement with the new blade that I will be putting back on when I was cutting the big oak which is why I put this blade back on the mill.

I have enjoyed this forum as well and may not have a very good mill yet but it was worse.  If the alignment helps belt life I probly won't go the serpinteen rout cause even though it is hard to tell, I get tired of having to redo everything sometimes too.

My next project will be working on guides and hoping what I have done helps with blade life.  I am not getting enough boards for my blade.  It is better but not good enough.

Cheers
gww

[Ox]

Cool!  Sounds promising, don't it (belts)?  I know that blades want to be tensioned.  I know that you can't over tension a blade using tires.  No matter how much you air them up, when you tension that blade too far it'll roll the tire right around the teeth and chew the rubber right off but quick.  Maybe even take the set out.  You would think a looser blade would last longer but I think when they're looser they wander around more, increasing flex and shortening life.  You know, like when you bend a piece of metal back and forth it'll break.  Same thing with the blades.  A well tensioned blade will last longer than a looser one I think.
I also know that it seems like in a box of blades you'll have one that's really great and one that's not so great and the rest are very good.  Seems that way anyways.
I'll give you a big thumbs up for your determination.  Speaks volumes. 
I see you're able to give some advice to another feller building a mill from a golf cart.  Pretty cool being able to pay it forward, ain't it? 

[gww]

Ox

I see you're able to give some advice to another feller building a mill from a golf cart.  Pretty cool being able to pay it forward, ain't it? 

Its only cool if the advice is good.  I believe in what I am telling him but would feel very bad if it caused him more work with no bennifit.  If I am out of line, I am hoping it generates a smarter person who may not have answered to call me on it,even if it makes me look dumb so they can look smart. 

It is hard to do a bunch of work and get no good from it.  It could cause someone to give up when they were close.

There are times when a guy might should give up and start over.  I kinda think that is what "Beenthere" was saying about my mill, but for some reason, I still see some potential and it gives me something to screw with and in any case, I like everybody still like to have a success once in a while.
Cheers
gww

[Ox]

I believe what you say 100%.  It can't be said better!
It's easy for others to say, "Just do this" and "just do that" but in reality it's much harder and time consuming.
It's also easy for others to spend your money.  "You need to get this and this and this".  Hundreds gone.
I find myself getting dragged into that way of thinking sometimes but try to think back when I made my first mill out of nothing while giving ideas or advice when others are trying to do the same thing (building a low cost mill).  It cost me nothing but welding rod and wire.  It worked like it cost me nothing, too!   :D  Yours does much better than my first one.
I was fortunate that I was able to salvage some big steel out of that first frame even though it took me a few days to cut out the old welds and grinding to clean it up.
Cutting some old seasoned black locust now for my raised beds.  Hard stuff.  Been down for 5 years and still wet inside.
Also just realized my guides are for 1 1/2" blades and the blades I'm using are 1 1/4".  Don't know why I didn't see it those months of building.
Had to order new ones.  Cooks.  $130 total just for the rollers.  There goes most of our propane money for this month.
It'll be alright, we have enough to get through to next month now that it's not below zero anymore.

[gww]

Propane
I don't know how you made it through the year before last.  I got all *pithed off with the company I was getting it from then and just quit using it and used space heaters with electric.  I kept a lot of my house colder then I used to and they say heating with electric is most expencive but my highest electric bill was $220 and the propane I had in my tank at that time had cost me $700 for maby 250 gal.  I still used it for hot water but when I run the tank dry I bought a differrent one and told the company to come and get theirs.  Last year was much better.  It aint that I couldn't have heated with propane on the bad year though I do use about ten gallons a day in cold weather.  That company was gouging me by almost $0.30 per gallon.  Now they get none of my money and I go where I want.

See you touched one of my hot button topics.
Cheers
gww

Ps you could have just orderred a inch and a half blade though eventually you will want to use up the one and a quarter inch blades.  Now you can do what you want based on what you get the best deal on.

[fishpharmer]

gww, your making good progress.  If it works, don't worry about how it looks.

[gww]

Fish
Thanks
gww

[gww]

I tightened the tension up even more and cut some more and the belts seem to be doing ok.  The cedar cut slow but strait, this blade has never cut as fast as the rest of them but I am not complaining about the boards. except I wasted some by not taking good time to measure and cleaning up some waves from the belt slipping days.  I think I got two good boards but I got more good cuts.  I was working between rain and visiting and I made my last cuts right before dark and was mostly consintrating on the belt system and what the cuts looked like.  I cut some half inch thick stuff so I could cut a few more times before running out of log.

I was mostly happy except for the speed maby, I am not in a bigg hurry but the slowness make me think the blade is not going to last long.  It didn't get any slower though, so maby it will limp along like this for 200 board foot.  I need to do one more log and see how the belt holds up and the rest of the mill, If all goes well, I will start on getting guides on it again.

I am also going to keep adding tension a bit at a time till it quits tracking on the tires or I hit a really sweet spot.  So far I had it tighter today then before and it tracked well but I ran out of log.  I have to tighten the tension with the blade running under speed so I can see if it is moving forward on the tire.  The new belt system with all its flaws, has seemed to make the tensioning flex less.  That  is a good thing I am sure.
Cheers
gww

[Ox]

gww - We joined a co-op propane buyer's group last year.  Costs $50 a year but if you use over 700 gal. a year like us then you get it for $1 less per gallon.  500 gallon above ground tank.  Just checked and it's $1.485 for us.  If you use less than 400 gal. a year it costs $2.485.  Everything is propane here now, including the shop.  When I get my porches built, the back one will be enclosed as a type of summer kitchen like they had in the old days and the old wood stove will be in there burning slabs buzzed up with the old flat belt driven buzz saw with roller table.  Old is good.
The first propane company we were with kept jacking the price.  We ended up paying almost $4 a gallon 2 winters ago when others were at $3.  Told them no thanks and did this here which is doable.  Energy companies can be nasty, I'm with ya cause we went through it too.  The company we have now is really good, kinda small time family type feeling.
I wanted to keep with the 1 1/4 for cost and longer blade life.  Like you said now I will have both for whatever the future holds.  Mill down the road has a whack of blades in all widths so ya never know...

[Ox]

Just realized you posted when I was.  Good news with the belts and new drive system holding up!
Judging on your past problems I would say more tension is better at this point.  Hopefully things hold up and your tracking will behave.
I think you're wise doing it this way first and then messing around with the guides.  Others doing homemade mills would do well by carefully reading this post.  Good job!

[gww]

Ox
Thanks, One thing about it. I plan on posting whatever happens good or bad and people can take from it what they will.
gww

[Ox]

That there's the finest way to help people in the future.
You've tried many different things and people will want to know about it sometime.  Even right now in another post.  What works and what doesn't work?  Now everyone will know.  Very commendable.

[gww]

The getting logs from my own woods is turning into quite a job.  I can never decide what to cut. All my giant trees are old fence lines and have barbwire in them.  The where probly left when it was logged in the way distant past.  Long enough ago that there are no stumps left.  I am back to using an atv trailer and hand winch so I look for easy access and can't move bigg logs.  I have lots of 12 inch and smaller stuff.  I looked for an hour before I picked what to cut.  I ended up hanging it in a between two trees and had to mess with it with the hand winch untill it broke through.  If I was cutting fire wood, I would have just cut from under the log up till it fell or got light enough to jerk out. 

I have two 12 foot logs that are about 14 inch and one 8 footer and a maby ten incher that got riped in half from the one I fell (make a beam out of it I guess).

So, as soon as I get them to the house, I am back in business and the saga continues. 

It is now time to drill some more holes and put some more legg bolts in the track to the beams it is sitting on cause I have been using the track itself to hook the chain and winch to to roll the log on to the mill.  It will also solidify it and make it so that if I ever need to drag it around it won't fall apart.

I will probly cut one more log and play with tensioning and then it will be time to try and add guides back to the mill.

I hope the belt system holds up during all this and it looks fair so far.

Man for a little log, I really like this tree.  It might have a small bow at the bottom but it was super long with hardly any taper.  It might look differrent when I get it on the mill but seems in the woods to be a very consitant thickness to the top. 

I can't tell if I am having fun or not getting into trouble and then getting out of it.

I wonder if this is how the adrenelin junky feels.
Thanks
gww

[Ox]

As long as you don't despise what you're doing you're on the right track!
On the fencerow trees, can you high-cut them?  Above the fence line height?  We have lots of old stumps around here that stick up 4 or 5 foot because they were cut in middle of winter (snow depth).
The big ones might have to wait until you scrounge up bigger log handling stuff.
Sounds like a good idea to get your track more solid, it'll be better in the long run like you say.
Good luck on your tinkering/next steps.  Sounds like you got the belt drive much better than it ever has been.
In the tool box to the bottom left is a neat thing that tells you the biggest cant you can get for a certain diameter of log.  Lots of neat stuff in the Forestry Forum Tool Box! 

[gww]

Ox
Dang, your good, I didn't even know the tool box was there.
gww

[Ox]

 ;D

[GF]

gww,
    I read where you had a blade break, this will be where the blade guides will help you out.  If you look at the blade that broke, it may have stress cracks on the backside opposite the teeth.  Without blade guides you are curving the blade as you cut and put pressure on the front since you have no guides to prevent this. When this occurs you will get stress cracks on the backside eventually causing the blade to break.  Also be very careful when cutting without any guides or guards, if you hit a nail, or even worse a drywall screw in a log there is no telling what the outcome may be.  Keep working out the bugs out and before long it will be cutting without any issues.

GF

[gww]

gf
I really apretiate your earlier insistance on my speed issue.  All things in good time.  I am going to have a guide system but having access to suitible matirials has been an issue and having so many problims to work on at once can be overwhelming.  I do think in the end, that getting it to cut without guides was a step in the right direction cause having to many things to look at at once make it hard to diagnose which one is the real issue.  I also have a lack of patients and want to keep throwing in a log to cut as much as posible.
Thanks for your help
gww

[gww]

I had to go to blade seven today,  the last blade never did pan out strait from the box.  The seventh blade just showed me how bad the other one was.  It still cut strait, so it wasn't a set issue it just didn't cut.

I am still eating the drive wheel belt and still throwing the other belt every so often. I tried grinding the homemade wheel pully once and ground all the weld off and had to re weld it.  I wonder if I bought a tube or two of liquid weld if it would smooth it out enough and maby hold up for a while?

I wonder if the slag left and not smooth enough is eating it while turning or if it is still slipping enough that it is being ate?

Might make a differrance in how I adress it.  It is still cutting strait if I am careful around knotts.   I don't know if getting a serpintine belt to work with the wheel pully is possible.

The good news is after about a month I have about 1/10th of the lumber cut that magic did in one day :D.

When counting the board foot of a 10 foot two by six cut to box store standard of 1 and 1/2 inch thick, would that be 10 board foot or about 7 board foot for those who cut for others and charge by the board foot?

Anyway, Thanks for reading.
gww

[gww]

Here is my acumulation of what 6 blades got me not counting the firewood pile which is bigger now dang it.  I also used the bad stuff on the grape aubor.

Every body likes pictures.



  

  

 

I have one log squared and reddy to cut on the mill and one in the woods.

Oh well still trying to get better.
gww

[Ox]

6.88 bf is what the calculator in the tool box gave me for a 1.5" x 5.5" x 10 foot board.
Looks like you're gaining on your whack o' lumber!  Nice arbor, too.  Someday I'll have grapes too.
Thanks for taking the time to post pictures, gww.
I think if you took your time and filled in all the nooks and crannies in the pulley it'll make the belt much happier.  I would recommend the epoxy putty where you break off a chunk and knead it until it's uniform color then put in on and work it like clay or play-doh for this job.  The liquid type weld is pretty runny.  And when you wait until it's set enough to stay put somewhat it's almost to late to use it!

[gww]

Ox
I guess I will have to walk the isials at a friendly neiborhood store when I go in for my next belt replacement.  I don't ever remember seeing the type of epoxy you are talking of.  Be really nice to end up with something tough enough to hold up that also dried a little tacky.  My belt could be run loser to boot.  Thanks for the advice.
I will check it out.
gww

[gww]

I figured out what was eating the belts and throwing the other belt.  I bought some epoxy and smoothed the belt out but what is really happening is the home made pully is not the same angle on where the belt rides on both sides.  The belt is trying to climb the less steep side and it gets tighter and tighter the whole time.  I have not got in my mind how to fix this yet and so I put the old belt back on so I could keep cutting while I think about it.

The new blade is amazing right now compared to the other one right out of the box.  Time will tell if it is going to hold up and I have made very few cuts with it as of yet.

It is cutting like butter and strait to boot so far.
Thanks
gww