homemade bandsaw mill, help

[Joe Hillmann]

Can you try running the mill with less tension on the blade.  That may help with the shafts moving so much.  In my experience the less tension you have they better your blade guides need to be to get a good cut.

Normally I would say with a tire mill you need as much tension as you can get to make a straight cut but if the tension is breaking your shafts is isn't helping you.

[mazdathumps]

Thanks Joe... Right now I don't have guides because of the re-build, but I will be getting some soon... I will have to learn tension all over again with guides... lol

[mazdathumps]

Well guys, I have mostly good news... Today, I took a little time and setup my collars on the axle and drilled small divots in the axle for the set screws to fall into... They work perfectly... I have zero slippage on the axles... The bad news on this deal is I realized my front pillow block bearing is getting pretty hot and the axle near the bearing also... It's touchable, but you don't want to touch it for more than a second or two... That seems pretty hot to me, but maybe it's normal... Still happy about the axle staying in place though... It's a win in my book...

With the axle staying still, I decided I should cut some wood up to see how everything works since the re-build... Again, GOOD NEWS!  She cuts pretty good now with the blade being pulled through the wood... I was cutting pretty wide peices (about 9+ inches) with my 5hp and NO GUIDES... It's slow, but I'm satisfied with the cut... I can only imagine the difference those blade guides will make once they are on and fine tuned... I'll be cutting straight I'm sure... With a larger engine, I'll be pushing through the wood in not time... I'm feeling pretty good about the changes so far... I'll try to post some pictures...

[Ljohnsaw]

The bad news on this deal is I realized my front pillow block bearing is getting pretty hot and the axle near the bearing also... It's touchable, but you don't want to touch it for more than a second or two... That seems pretty hot to me, but maybe it's normal...

I would have to say NO, not normal.  Heat is bad and could be coming from two sources, assuming nothing is obviously rubbing.  If the bearings are dry (very bad), they will heat up and will likely lead to ceasing up.  If the shaft is slightly flexing (due to blade tension combined with thinner shaft), that will result in metal fatigue and eventual failure of the shaft (breakage).  Did you ever take a paper clip and bend the wire back and forth a bunch and then touch your brother's arm? ;) Same principle.  Keep bending it back and forth and it will break.

[mazdathumps]

I will put a new pillow block bearing in there and see if I still get heat with the new one... If so, then we can eliminate the dry bearings and assume it's the pressure of the tension... I'm really trying to steer away from going bigger on everything... That's a major fix on my saw mill... Lot's of money for all new parts too... I guess I'll have to see what the new bearing does then decide what's next...

[Kbeitz]

If you deal on E-nay you will find pillow blocks at a good price...

[mazdathumps]

I use Amazon Prime mostly... I pay annually for it and it's free 2-day shipping to my door... Can't beat it in my opinion... I think I just paid $8.something per pillow block bearing yesterday for the ones coming tomorrow...

[mazdathumps]

This is mid-process of mounting the collars and drilling the divot for the set screw...


with the two collars mounted...


Frame flipped and mounting everything to this side... The plate under the engine can house pretty much anything that will fit on this sawmill... Built it this way so I can upsize my engine or swap out pretty easily...


I painted the wheels black while they were off... not sure why, but they look alright i guess


a sample of how it cuts AFTER the flip over... Such a better cut than before... That's usable as is...


This is the biggest gap I was able to find on the first cut after the flip over... This is no guides at all... Not too bad I think

[gww]

Josh
I am betting the new bearing will fix it.  I had my wheel bearings go out and heat is what you get.  I cut today myself.  I broke a blade and so now am on my last two blades.  I ordered 20 more just now.  I didn't do my usual and order the absolute cheapest but paid $1.50 more per blade and had to buy 20 instead of my normal 10.  I think I will now be using the same blade that ox uses on his mill. I believe they are an 8 degree blade instead of the 10 degree I have been using.  I think this is the first blade I broke since buying my last ten blades of the softer type.

My log ended up giving me about seven 10 inch wide one bys.

I doubt I ever use the full 20 blade I bought today cause I am not cutting as often but I still have a pile of logs going on three years on the ground that I need to keep wittling on.

It sounds like you did see some improvement.  Now if you can keep your belt from slipping and eventually get a bigger motor.  It will be pretty good.  If you get you guides lined out, you will probly see more improvement in your cut then you are seeing now even if you use the five horse for a while.
You seem to be pretty happy with your improvements unless I am reading you wrong.

I am happy for you though you did do the work to make it happen on your own.

Good luck
gww

ps I already had this typed before I saw your pictures and so posted it anyway.

[Kbeitz]

Maybe you heat is coming from the first pillow block bearing
being so far back on the shaft. This will let your shaft flex.
You could move it up on the square stock and use longer bolts.

[gww]

K
That is what I thought to but that is also his tensioner and so he would have to use air in the tire or something to change his blades.
gww

[mazdathumps]

GWW is right... The plate that the pillow block bearings mount to is the tension and adjustment plate... It floats between the square frame and angle iron to allow for adjustment... The pillow block is as close to the hub as I can get it and the wheel is as close to the frame as I can comfortably get it... On the flip side of this plate is coupling nuts welded to the plate.  The threaded rod threads through the coupling nuts and adjust that plate inward and outward or more on the back, more on the front, etc... It aligns, adjusts, and tensions... To change the blade, I adjust one side only and count my turns, then to tighten I just count that many back again... Start her up and fine tune it, but usually it's pretty close...

I have no argument on the distance being quite a strain on the axle and bearing, but it's my only choice on this mill... THIS is one of the things I would manage a little differently on the next mill... The 2 breaks were between the front and middle bearings, closest to the middle bearing (which is why I added it where I did)... 

[mazdathumps]

Gotta hit the sack... Thanks guys for the input, it's always helpful and keeps the wheels turning... Night 8)

[mazdathumps]

Ok, I lied... I uploaded this real quick before bed... lol NOW, I'm actually going to bed...


This is the bottom side of that plate, as described in a previous post...

Night guys

[gww]

Josh
Goodnite.  You could of course put a plate on top of your adjustment plate and bring it over the square tubing and weld it to you adjustment plate you have now and it would slide on the top of the square tubing.  Put a plate on the other side to make it the same higth and it wouldn't matter if your wheel set a little furthure out cause your attachment points would still be closer to the wheels.  Not saying you need to do this, Try new bearings first.  It would stop you from a compleet redesign if you needed to do it.  It would just be two plates of metal with holes drilled in it.
If you can even understand what I wrote, it is just one more ideal to think about.  I personally never do anything untill something breaks if it is working at all.  I do think of what to do for when it breaks though.
Good luck
gww

[mazdathumps]

I absolutely follow you. I can't believe I hadn't thought of that already. Like you tho, I'll wait until it's a good time to do it...

[Joe Hillmann]

Josh
Goodnite.  You could of course put a plate on top of your adjustment plate and bring it over the square tubing and weld it to you adjustment plate you have now and it would slide on the top of the square tubing.  Put a plate on the other side to make it the same higth and it wouldn't matter if your wheel set a little furthure out cause your attachment points would still be closer to the wheels.  Not saying you need to do this, Try new bearings first.  It would stop you from a compleet redesign if you needed to do it.  It would just be two plates of metal with holes drilled in it.
If you can even understand what I wrote, it is just one more ideal to think about.  I personally never do anything untill something breaks if it is working at all.  I do think of what to do for when it breaks though.
Good luck
gww

This could be a good solution.  That and running less tension once you get the new guides.

[Kbeitz]

It might cost a few bucks more but you can buy a bearing with a
extended collar.



 

[mazdathumps]

I think my axle slippage has been solved... My new pillow block bearings came in today, so I will try to get them installed sometime this week (if possible)... Hopefully, this will be all I need for the heat issue... We shall see and act accordingly if it's a fail... lol

As for the nice cuts I got yesterday, today has been pretty bad... Not sure why - nothing is changed... I'm scratching my head... The cut gets worse the closer to hard wood I get (heart of pine in this case)... Could it be blade, blade speed, no guides, or everything together?  I do plan to get the guides, but just thinking out loud here...

I'm at work, so I can't upload pictures right now, but the teeth are covered in hard sawdust... Is that normal? Seems it wouldn't be normal... If not normal, what is going on here and how do I solve that?

[gww]

Josh
Do you have another new blade to put on the mill?  You can always put the current one back on later.  Is you blade diving or just all over the place and following the grain of the wood?  I get the hard build up near the blade tips. I have never cut pine and so I don't know how they act.  It may be that you need the lubricant. I never found that soap and water would soften the hard stuff on the blade.  I have in the past sprayed the hard stuff with wd40 to try and soften it up.  Just something to try once.  Some times a blade will dull really fast.  I usually try and power wash my logs before cutting. 

Are you getting any domeing of the cut where it makes sort of a hump in the middle of the board?  That would lead me to think that maby the tension is not tight enough.  Guides will help quite a bit but it you have your blade running pretty parelel to your track you should do at least ok.  That is pretty important.

If your blade is diving then you may be losing set in your blade though some say your build up you mentioned can also cause this.

It could be as simple as the log you are cutting.  Some logs have enough stress that nothing does good.  I think the smaller logs are some times the worst.  Try a differrent log or flip the one you have for each cut just to see.  Maby cut a bought board just to see.

When you get to the end of the cut can you pull the blade back over the cut with out moving anything?

Waiting to hear your thoughts on what I have typed.
gww
Ps is you drive belt slipping or are you pushing the motor to hard causing the rpm to really drop?

[mazdathumps]

GWW... I will try to answer everything as I see it...

I do have one new blade left and I can try that one also... The blade is diving pretty bad - 1/2 inch plus, then I back off to keep from damaging anything... Long leaf yellow pine is common around me and it's mainly used for lumber... It's pretty soft pine with a small heart... If you get a seasoned heart, then the heart is like concrete... The problem with this type of wood is the bugs and worms gets in the bark and turns the wood a gray color (we call "blued")... It's only good for 2by's and such... They are not very old logs, so the heart should be manageable still... These logs had termites in the bark, so it was pressure washed last week, bark free when I was cutting it...

As for tooth set, could the tires be bending the tooth set? I can't imagine enough pressure from rubber changing the set on hardened teeth...

The logs are straight and have very little stress points, so i'm sure we can eliminate this...

The end of my cuts is interesting and It's always been the same way... The blade rises on entrance, then levels out for the whole log, and drops about an 1/8" of the end of the log... I assumed the blade guides would help settle this issue... Should I be concerned with this right now with no guides?

As for belt slip - no... It's very very tight (probably more than it should be actually)... And I try to maintain consistent RPM's throughout my whole cut.. The RPM's set my feed speed, which is very slow with my 5hp... I'm cutting about 3 inches every 10-15 seconds - SLOWWWW...

[Ox]

I think your problem right now is simple:  put good guides on, set 1/4" down.  You can't expect good cuts without control of the blade in between the bandwheels. 
Good guides that hold the blade parallel and level front to back and side to side to the deck, with a good blade will give you a good cut.  With the smaller engine it'll be slower.

[gww]

Josh
You are saying two things.  You say the blade is diving bad and later you say the blade is rising and then staying level.  Did you lay a strait edge on where the log lays and one on the blade and measure from the one on the blade to the one sitting on where your log sits? 

I did grind my tires with an angle grinder where the tips of the blade would be.  I did this with out a belt hooked up and it gets the tire going pretty fast and I don't think I took much off.  I have a new tire that I did not do this to on the mill now.  Some say it will take the set out of the blade.  If the set is out on the blade from the tire it will make the blade dive down into the wood.  I doubt this is your problim but it is also very easy to put an angle grinder on the wheel and take a small amount off.

I just keep thinking it is your blade to your track.  If you look at your blade on your tire you should be able to see how hard the tip might be digging into your tire. 

Mine wil drop after the cut for a couple of reasons.
1  A dull blade  or one I have ground on a few times and got off.

2  stress in a log.  Yesterday mine droped where I could just bairly not pull it back over the cut untill I got through the middle of the log and then it was perfect for the rest of the cuts.
3 If my blade was not parelel with the track.  The guides that leggman made me do allow an adjustment to bring the front or back of the blade up or down to make it perfect and so guide can make the final differrence.  My view though was that I didn't want to spend that much money on something if it didn't make it work after I got them and so I wanted it to work before I got them so if I had to start over, I would not have just sent more money after a bad build.  So my view is you should be able to get it to cut pretty good with out the guides and then getting them will be a plus and not just more waste.

When I have a bearing go out on a guide, my mill will act like you are saying untill I run down the problim.  Or if my guide arms get lose.

Did the new blade do the raise and then stay thing on your very first cut with it yesterday when you got your good board.  If it did then I say your alighment might still be off,  If it didn't then maby your tires are taking out set though if that is the case your blade should be diving.

I have a whole bunch of bounce in my unballanced tires and mostly it does not affect the cut.  I wonder if when you alighn your blade if you would rotate the tire 180 degrees and see if it is still alighned. 

For a quick check I take a 2 foot level and sit it on the blade and then sit it on the track and see if the bubble in the level is pretty well in the same place at both places.

I would not put another blade on the mill if my first cut with the last blade acted like the rest of the cuts untill I changed something. Grinding the wheel, lineing up the blade or something.  But yes, a new blade takes the question away from it being that causing the problim.  If the other blade did not climb and then stay till it cut a little bit, I would grind the tire and reline the blade to the track and then try the new blade.  Is your blade riding dead center of the tire up where there is a very small arch.  (mine don't perfectly on both wheels but is close)?

I don't know for sure what might work and so just keep trying things.  I still have issues every once in a while with mine and have to track down new problims. 

What are your thoughts
gww

Ps ox posted while I was writing but I pushed post anyway.  Hi ox

[mazdathumps]

Thanks OX, i'm anxious to try some guides once I get around to ordering them... I hope they solve a majority if not all my issues...

GWW...  I will keep plucking away at different things like you said... And to specify the two different cuts... IF I make it through my whole piece, like what I would consider a decent cut, is when it drops the 1/8th inch (it used to be 1/4 inch plus before this forum)... When it dives pretty badly, I back out and don't finish the cut...

[gww]

Josh
Got it.  This seems like it should be simple but I got 30 something pages that show it must not be.  When things end up working it still seems kinda simple but when chasing problims......

I think you have a decent base going on and if you keep plugging and fiddling you will get some boards.

Do you think you are where you started before changing the drive wheel are do you think you are getting closer?

Ox may be right and the guides might bring it home.  If I was you and you could get them solid and the bearings are good, I would put your original guides on one time and see what you have untill you get the roller guides.  There are saws out there with that type of set up and what it does is stop you blade from turning up or down.  Look up a hudson mill or woodland mill vidio on guide adjustment for a little more training on what you are trying to do.

You need good adjustment even with the roller bearings that put down pressure on the blade.  And I do like them best but since you have the other ones, you have something to play with untill you pull the trigger for roller guides.
May help, may not.
Good luck
gww