Excavator Stumping: Bucket vs Ripper/Stumper

[wfcjr]

Using an excavator to remove stumps in some forest patches we are clearing.  A couple of patches about 1.5 acres each.

Currently using a 36" trenching/dig bucket to remove the stumps.  Some folks on another forum have suggested using a ripper instead of the trenching/dig bucket.  In doing an internet search, it looks like these rippers are available in two different configurations.  One is a single ripping tooth.  The other is a two-tined ripper designed, it appears, for stumping.

Would be interested in folks experiences & recommendations on the bucket vs a ripper type attachment for stumping.  Also, if anyone has any experience around the single toothed, vs two tined ripper for stumping.

Thanks....

[Stuart Caruk]

Having torn out thousands of stumps with an excavator, my last choice is a bucket. Even lower down the list is a wide bucket. Most of the issues removing stumps are breaking the roots that secure it in place. With a bucket, you end up starting a hole some distance from the stump, simply because the force required to rip through a root mass up close to the stump is insane when combined with the force of breaking out the surrounding dirt. You end up starting away to expose the root, and working your way towards the stump to tear the roots out. a single shank ripper tooth makes the work easy, especially if you have a 2 tine or more thumb to help push dirt out of the way. A 2 shank ripper simply means you tear up a bit more ground further out from the stump.

95% of the work is done by driving the shank in the ground and curling it up towards you, ripping the roots as you go. One the roots are cut free, the stump is easy to lever out in the same fashion. If you can't get the stump out, you just need to work your way all around the stump to remove the roots, and even a small excavtor can break them free. The worst mistake I see people make is getting the stump loose and then they get impatient... THeystart swinging the side of the boom, or bucket into the stump to help bust it loose. Reallyt all they do is bust up the pins and bushings in the boom.

[beenthere]

I had a little experience helping with stumps, and the single tooth would be my suggestion. For much the reasons as Stu said very well. 

[4x4American]

Ripper is the way to go.  We have one on a quick attach for our cat 315 excavators to use in conjunction with the thumb.

[wfcjr]

Ripper is the way to go.  We have one on a quick attach for our cat 315 excavators to use in conjunction with the thumb.

Single tooth or two tines?

[Stuart Caruk]

Think of the physics involved... You have a root going through the ground at right angles to the ripper. You are going to try to severe it. Does it take more power to do it in one, or 2 places at the same time? You only need to sever the root once to get the root out of the ground, so one is better. You do need to move dirt sometimes to get to the root, so a 2 shank ripper helps that, or a demolition style thumb works just as well to push loose dirt out of the way.

[4x4American]

single tooth.  The more surface area you have trying to sever the roots, the harder it becomes.  Also, when you have a single tooth one in conjunction with a thumb you can split firewood with it.  Or if you have a big log you can use em together to split the log.

[wfcjr]

Think of the physics involved... You have a root going through the ground at right angles to the ripper. You are going to try to severe it. Does it take more power to do it in one, or 2 places at the same time? You only need to sever the root once to get the root out of the ground, so one is better. You do need to move dirt sometimes to get to the root, so a 2 shank ripper helps that, or a demolition style thumb works just as well to push loose dirt out of the way.

Understand the mechanics.  The smaller the bearing surface area, the greater the force at the point of contact.   

With the bucket vs ripper, it is easier to see the force advantage of the ripper, particularly since the primary activity is severing roots vs removing
earth.  But when comparing a single toothed ripper to a two tined style, it is a bit different..... Sure the single ripper has a greater concentration of force.  But the double tined would seem to help with grabbing & moving stumps & pieces of stumps.   Also, as mentioned above the double shanked ripper will help in moving earth & rocks around when necessary.  Lots of rocks up here and they like to take up residence in an around root balls.

So I was thinking that one may gain a pretty good bit of force concentration, and advantage of task specificity, when moving from a trenching bucket to a ripper style attachment.  At the same time, was thinking that I would not lose that much ripping force when going from a single tooth to a double tined ripper, but would gain advantage in grasping, moving, rocks, earth, roots,etc, with the second tine over a single tine. 

So net-net, advantage ripper over bucket.  Slight advantage double tine over single tine ripper, thinking that the loss in ripping force is not that great, but the gain in handling would be substantial.

Please calibrate my conceptual conclusion with real world experience... thanks.

Will be using either along with a hydraulic thumb. 

[4x4American]

If you're only moving logs/stumps, a single tooth will be fine.  But when you mentioned moving rocks, that's where a two tooth ripper would come in handy. 

What size machine are you running?

[wfcjr]

If you're only moving logs/stumps, a single tooth will be fine.  But when you mentioned moving rocks, that's where a two tooth ripper would come in handy. 

What size machine are you running?

Volvo ECR145 DL
35,000 lb
113 hp

Comparable to a Cat 314/315.  A bit more hp & weight than a Cat 314
About the same hp as a Cat 315 and a tad lighter.

[4x4American]

10-4 yea that's plenty good size. 


The ripper attachment is also good for digging through frost.  We only have a single, but I would think that a double tine one would be better for digging through frost.

[tmbrcruiser]

I have run a few jobs clearing and you should check out CBI's stumping shear. On large stumps it will split them in the ground and pulling half a stump is easier than the whole stump. There is a plate on the head of the shear for back filling the stump hole. One more idea for you to think about. Good luck!

[wfcjr]

I have run a few jobs clearing and you should check out CBI's stumping shear. On large stumps it will split them in the ground and pulling half a stump is easier than the whole stump. There is a plate on the head of the shear for back filling the stump hole. One more idea for you to think about. Good luck!

Thanks for the suggestion, checked it out, but looks like it is only for much larger machines than I have.
Also, I am operating in mtns in New England, have to be very mindful of rocks.

[Stuart Caruk]

I've never seen a hydraulic thumb with only one tooth, so a single shank up front and 2 or more tines on the thumb (I prefer a demolition thumb that's wide with several shorter teeth myself) will easily pluck any stump or rock. When the rocks aren't round, you get a better bite, since it would be rare that both ripper shanks and all the thumb teeth would be in contact with the rock at any rate.

I like the single tooth since you can often use it as a stump splitter, to help bust stumps up, and if you sharpen it well, you can cut through some surprisingly robust brush and smaller trees.

What it really comes down to though is what's available and supported in your area.

[Peter Drouin]

I never had a problem. :D :D :D


  

  

  

 
All 3 came out all together, Was easy for John. :D :D

[wfcjr]

I never had a problem. :D :D :D

All 3 came out all together, Was easy for John. :D :D

Yeh, but was sized machine is that.... looks pretty big.

[tmbrcruiser]

Well if you are working with a smaller machine I would give a thumbs up for a single shank ripper. Had a job with a D8 and a large JCB back hoe working together. The ground was wet and the D8 was having trouble getting some large pine stumps up. The JCB with a single shank took the stumps up with little trouble. All sites are different hope you figure out what will work best for you.

[BargeMonkey]

 690C, or a very early D. A 690B would have the cab on the other side. I cut my teeth as a kid ripping shale with a straight 490, and stripped alot of material with a 690B, enjoy seeing some of the older iron besides the forestry equipment.  ;)